Fang's new orthos shipping

[screaming oranges]

"Please understand that HE-5 earphones are handmade product, so you may be missing a couple of washers, or screws, and there has been a case where even one driver was missing... but as long as you're comfortable with it..."

[jinp6301]

LOL, really?

[penger]

p.s. how are the pieces connected (is it a screw, nut and bolt, rivet etc.) ?

I believe they're just screws. I can take pictures when I get home.

LOL, really?

Yes.

[mrarroyo]

I received my HE5 and EF5 on Monday, 12/14. I have been feeding the combo music using an old Philips DVD player since and they have logged a tad over 255 hours in addition to the 20 hours of burn-in at the factory in China. During the 255 I fed different types of music and I varied the volume from very low listening to about Noon on the volume control (could be heard across room and sometimes in the living room). I did listen to them on and off during the burn-in and there was change (small as compare to other headphones) from start to finish but I found it very hard to hear any difference from day to day. Today I moved the unit to the main rack and it is being fed apple lossless files from my Dell PC using a Chaintech AV710 via an optical cable from Blue Jean Cable. The DAC is a Monarchy NM24 powered via a Monarchy Audio AC Re-generator and the IC are SILVER SONIC BL-1 I got on sale from Moon Audio via Audiogon.

The headphone is indeed very comfortable and the EF5 in low gain has plenty of power to drive the HE5. I find I have the volume at about 8 o'clock and that is plenty loud for me. Before I get into the sound I will describe a couple of minor issues I have with the rig.

1. The single ended cable is too short, IMO it should be at least 3 meters long. I have spoken about this with Fang and he indicated that after the Chinese new year they will be offering a longer cable and a balanced one. If this becomes a reality it will be a nice additions. BTW the stock cable is flexible enough and I like the red dot on the termination (headphone end) to help old farts like me with poor eyesight.

2. The hard plastic feet used on both the amp and psu are abysmal. The amp is way to close to the surface below and it transfers a lot of heat, plus by not having an air space the amp retains some of the heat instead of getting read of it. I would suggest placing rubber feet which provide at least a 1/2" or 5/8" of air gap. Besides a rubber feet will assist in preventing the amp from sliding when you attempt to insert the 1/4" plug.

3. Place small rubber grommets on all of the 4 screws on the plexiglass cover. This grommets would create an air gap which would assist in ventilating the amp, which like the EF1 gets quite warm.

4. Ditch the "tube protection" it IMO detracts from the amp, makes swapping tubes harder than it should, and retains heat.

As you can see in ergonomics my four "issues" are quite minimal and with the exception of the longer cable are quite easy to DIY a solution.

For sound impressions I will adding them to this thread as time goes on. It will not be a review but more of thoughts and ideas as a result of the music (mostly jazz) I listen too. For now I can say:

1. I do not hear any shrillness metallic sound in the top end as some have reported. It is energetic and it has a great extension but what I hear is clean and detailed. BTW, being 51 YO may be the reason I do not hear some of the treble issues reported by the younger listeners.

2. Bass is strong and like the treble it extends low. The low mids are very detailed as well and I do not hear any muddiness.

3. The mids are clear with long decay to the notes. Very easy to hear when a note starts/ends, the hi-hat sounds fantastic like it is being played in front of you.

4. I find the overall sound very life like with a fast presentation.

Based on the four bullets above you may think I really like the combo. The truth is the jury is still out. For some reason I do not find the combo as involving as the K501, RS-1, or the MarkL modded Denons. The individual elements of the presentation are extremely good, yet the sum of the parts do not bring to my face the smile the other cans do. Perhaps additional burn-in is needed, or I need to get used to their presentation.

I do want to like the combo because at times I can hear great sounds from it. But if it remain un-involving then I will have to re-think if I keep them or not. On a side note my wife who has excellent hearing really liked the combo and preferred to the MarkL modded Denons. More to come ...

This is my first attempt at an impression post here in Head Case, sure hope I do not get crucified.

[Dusty Chalk]

Are you kidding? That was wonderful.

BTW, I agree with you about the shrillness vs. just plain highly energetic in the high-frequency range, but then I'm closer to your age than to the younger listeners'.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I received my HE5 and EF5 on Monday, 12/14. I have been feeding the combo music using an old Philips DVD player since and they have logged a tad over 255 hours in addition to the 20 hours of burn-in at the factory in China. During the 255 I fed different types of music and I varied the volume from very low listening to about Noon on the volume control (could be heard across room and sometimes in the living room). I did listen to them on and off during the burn-in and there was change (small as compare to other headphones) from start to finish but I found it very hard to hear any difference from day to day. Today I moved the unit to the main rack and it is being fed apple lossless files from my Dell PC using a Chaintech AV710 via an optical cable from Blue Jean Cable. The DAC is a Monarchy NM24 powered via a Monarchy Audio AC Re-generator and the IC are SILVER SONIC BL-1 I got on sale from Moon Audio via Audiogon.

The headphone is indeed very comfortable and the EF5 in low gain has plenty of power to drive the HE5. I find I have the volume at about 8 o'clock and that is plenty loud for me. Before I get into the sound I will describe a couple of minor issues I have with the rig.

1. The single ended cable is too short, IMO it should be at least 3 meters long. I have spoken about this with Fang and he indicated that after the Chinese new year they will be offering a longer cable and a balanced one. If this becomes a reality it will be a nice additions. BTW the stock cable is flexible enough and I like the red dot on the termination (headphone end) to help old farts like me with poor eyesight.

2. The hard plastic feet used on both the amp and psu are abysmal. The amp is way to close to the surface below and it transfers a lot of heat, plus by not having an air space the amp retains some of the heat instead of getting read of it. I would suggest placing rubber feet which provide at least a 1/2" or 5/8" of air gap. Besides a rubber feet will assist in preventing the amp from sliding when you attempt to insert the 1/4" plug.

3. Place small rubber grommets on all of the 4 screws on the plexiglass cover. This grommets would create an air gap which would assist in ventilating the amp, which like the EF1 gets quite warm.

4. Ditch the "tube protection" it IMO detracts from the amp, makes swapping tubes harder than it should, and retains heat.

As you can see in ergonomics my four "issues" are quite minimal and with the exception of the longer cable are quite easy to DIY a solution.

For sound impressions I will adding them to this thread as time goes on. It will not be a review but more of thoughts and ideas as a result of the music (mostly jazz) I listen too. For now I can say:

1. I do not hear any shrillness metallic sound in the top end as some have reported. It is energetic and it has a great extension but what I hear is clean and detailed. BTW, being 51 YO may be the reason I do not hear some of the treble issues reported by the younger listeners.

2. Bass is strong and like the treble it extends low. The low mids are very detailed as well and I do not hear any muddiness.

3. The mids are clear with long decay to the notes. Very easy to hear when a note starts/ends, the hi-hat sounds fantastic like it is being played in front of you.

4. I find the overall sound very life like with a fast presentation.

Based on the four bullets above you may think I really like the combo. The truth is the jury is still out. For some reason I do not find the combo as involving as the K501, RS-1, or the MarkL modded Denons. The individual elements of the presentation are extremely good, yet the sum of the parts do not bring to my face the smile the other cans do. Perhaps additional burn-in is needed, or I need to get used to their presentation.

I do want to like the combo because at times I can hear great sounds from it. But if it remain un-involving then I will have to re-think if I keep them or not. On a side note my wife who has excellent hearing really liked the combo and preferred to the MarkL modded Denons. More to come ...

This is my first attempt at an impression post here in Head Case, sure hope I do not get crucified.

I think you gave the rig enough burn-in. I agree with much of what you said about the fixes and sound as well.

I find the EF5/HE-5 combo actually sounds better with my $99 uDAC than my $699 PS Audio Digital Link III, which makes the HE-5 warmer and fuller sounding with the EF5. At first I didn't like that DAC with the HE-5/EF5 but it grew on me. I suspect I would also like the EF5/HE-5 combo with my Mini-DAC and I'm going to swap DAC's between my bedroom rig and main rig later, since I think the WES/O2 Mk1 sounds a little better with the PS Audio in terms of frequency response.

Now, with the PS Audio DAC I prefer the HE-5 with my WA6 over the EF5 amp, and with the Apogee/ZDT I like the HE-5 more as well. So, I wonder if changing the tube in the EF5 will help us, or if trying a different source (or amp) will help you.

At this point, with the ZDT and WA6 amps I liked the HE-5 enough to sell the APS V3 RS-1 and TTVJ portable Millett hybrid to plaidplatypus (medical bills and car repair were calling). So, you'll get to hear that at a Florida meet one of these days. I have not extensively compared the HD-5 to my LA7000 yet but I suspect I'll find them to be on a similar level, making the used price I paid for LA7000 much less painful than full price. Was your wife liking modded D2000 or D5000 more?

[Fitz]

1. I do not hear any shrillness metallic sound in the top end as some have reported. It is energetic and it has a great extension but what I hear is clean and detailed. BTW, being 51 YO may be the reason I do not hear some of the treble issues reported by the younger listeners.

Don't you also listen at relatively low volumes, Miguel? That would make most treble issues less of a concern than for those of us who like to rock the fuck out. \m/

[mrarroyo]

Larry, my wife has never really warmed up to either the MarkL modded D2000 or D5000, by comparison she prefers the RS-1, K701, and K501. BTW, I am using the tube dac out of the Monarchy NM24 to feed the EF5/HE5 combo.

Don't you also listen at relatively low volumes, Miguel? That would make most treble issues less of a concern than for those of us who like to rock the fuck out. \m/

You are correct, I listen at very low volumes so that is another difference which would have an impact in the overall presentation and listening experience.

[mypasswordis]

Thanks for the impressions Miguel. Give it more time, sometimes the initially unimpressive sounding headphones come out on top after you realize everything else is just colored. Not to say that the HE5 isn't colored, but I'd have to spend more time with it to really figure it out.

penger, how do you like NoNoNoNoNoNo's HE5? Any sibilance/treble peaks?

[Currawong]

mrarrayo: Well written impressions: Succinct and to the point.

My HE-5s arrived tonight (due to no Christmas holiday in China and Japan). First impressions are very good, fun, but tight bass that rolls off down deep, a treble peak possibly a bit higher than the HD-800s, but making them somewhat fatiguing, even on my smooth rig, and mids from Jesus. They are the first can since the Stax 4070s to bring tears to my eyes on vocals. The real testing will come when I start switching between them and the HD-800s and Stax. I'll have to head into the city and grab another 4-pin XLR plug too so I put the APS v3 cable I have spare on them.

[jp11801]

When you guys listen to these take a moment and check for low level details. I was enjoying the overall presentation at the Florida meet but the overall feeling was that they were really diffused sounding and were missing low level detail. Overall tonality was great but it felt like I was listening through a mist.

Al pointed this out to me when I was listening to them through the spud amp and while they were enjoyable I had to agree with him.

Edited January 9, 2010 by tyrion

[mrarroyo]

I have kept burning in he EF5/HE5 combo, currently at about 300+ hours. It appears that the original estimate I remember reading of 200 hours of burn-in was not sufficient. I say this because either my ears are lying to me or the sound (specifically) the upper treble has mellowed while remaining crisp and detailed. I find they are more engaging and fun to listen too.

Should any of the SF crew wish to listen to this combo send me a PM an I could arrange to meet with you in Miami or Fort Lauderdale so you could take the combo and listen to it in the privacy of your home for a week w/ your music. All I would request is that you keep burning them in, so I they reach 450 hours.

[Currawong]

When you guys listen to these take a moment and check for low level details. I was enjoying the overall presentation at the Florida meet but the overall feeling was that they were really diffused sounding and were missing low level detail. Overall tonality was great but it felt like I was listening through a mist.

Al pointed this out to me when I was listening to them through the spud amp and while they were enjoyable I had to agree with him.

Mine are a different beast running single-ended or balanced from the Phoenix, tonally that is, which surprised me. Usually headphones just get a much wider soundstage with better separation. I got slammed suggesting they aren't extremely detailed on HF. Maybe I need to put more hours on them, but I have to say I agree with this on my rig, after listening with my Stax, HD-800s and the Symphones Magnums. Mushy would be my word, with the treble and mid-bass peaks fighting each other. They don't seem to be able to keep up with anything fast and complex as well as I had hoped either. Still a fun listen if one avoids comparing them to anything else too quickly or listening too critically. I wonder what they'd sound like if they had leather (fake or real) pads on them.

Edited January 9, 2010 by tyrion

[mypasswordis]

I pretty much agree with none of the above, from my short time hearing a pair (not counting balanced because I didn't hear it as such). If they had leather pads they'd probably sound bloated and mid-bassy. I do agree that there is a slight obscuring of the midrange, at least compared to 'stats.

[Dusty Chalk]

That's probably why he got slammed -- the description doesn't match what other people have been hearing. Maybe got a defective one?

[jinp6301]

MD didnt think they had good low level detail as well.

I think the low level detail on Colin's rig was great. The headphone sounds progressively worse with less powered amps

[Currawong]

That's probably why he got slammed -- the description doesn't match what other people have been hearing. Maybe got a defective one?

I think it may be case of people confusing brightness with detail to some degree. The treble is quite good, but as has also been pointed out, the HD-800s reveal more detail overall. Don't get me wrong though, I think they are excellent value and I can easily imagine people following HeadphoneAddict's $1k rig suggestion and not feeling a desire to upgrade afterwards. That it takes considerably more expensive (dynamic) cans to best them is quite an achievement. I really hope that Fang doesn't stop here and continues to improve the design.

[cetoole]

I really hope that Fang doesn't stop here and continues to improve the design.

He has said he is working on a higher level version, as well as a cheaper version.

[xand1x]

MD didnt think they had good low level detail as well.

I think the low level detail on Colin's rig was great. The headphone sounds progressively worse with less powered amps

Hmm..Colin how much power does your spud have? (output into 8ohms)

[HeadphoneAddict]

I think it may be case of people confusing brightness with detail to some degree. The treble is quite good, but as has also been pointed out, the HD-800s reveal more detail overall. Don't get me wrong though, I think they are excellent value and I can easily imagine people following HeadphoneAddict's $1k rig suggestion and not feeling a desire to upgrade afterwards. That it takes considerably more expensive (dynamic) cans to best them is quite an achievement. I really hope that Fang doesn't stop here and continues to improve the design.

I'm finding them to be good enough to displace my HD600 and HF-2 in my bedroom rig, as it made those sound muddy and veiled. The HE-5 allowed me to sell my APS v3 cabled RS-1, which were closest to the HE-5 but now redundant. In my rig I would never call the HE-5 mushy, but they still don't beat my HD800.

I do think the SR-404LE on an eXStatA amp are a little better than the HE-5/EF5 combo, but it's not that easy to get the amp.

[morphsci]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the EF5 as being anything special. That being said, I thought the HE-5 sounded very good out of both the Zana and BA back in November. But it was at a meet and I did not even attempt any serious listening.

Edited January 9, 2010 by morphsci

[cetoole]

Hmm..Colin how much power does your spud have? (output into 8ohms)

About 1.62w, current limited. More into the 25ohm impedance of the HE5, voltage limited.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see the EF5 as being anything special. That being said, I thought the HE-5 sounded very good out of both the Zana and BA back in November. But it was at a meet and I did not even attempt any serious listening.

I only brought the EF5 up since it's part of the "$1000 rig" that Currawong was talking about. It's a decent amp for the price but nothing special when compared to the WA6 or ZDT.

[aRc]

Guy's, I'm using the First Watt (F3) or the output of the si2A3/45 with good results (Moar Powah!!). The band-aid of the EF-5 doesn't cut it:cool:!! The schmaltz and euphony are gone when more, and better controlled power is used! Great presentation with a wealth of details, the notes and sounds (a majority of them) used to stick to the diaphram...no longer!

[Currawong]

I'm finding them to be good enough to displace my HD600 and HF-2 in my bedroom rig, as it made those sound muddy and veiled. The HE-5 allowed me to sell my APS v3 cabled RS-1, which were closest to the HE-5 but now redundant. In my rig I would never call the HE-5 mushy, but they still don't beat my HD800.

I do think the SR-404LE on an eXStatA amp are a little better than the HE-5/EF5 combo, but it's not that easy to get the amp.

The mushy thought came from the mids when I was listening to Shpongle just after using the Symphones Magnums, so it's probably a bit unfair. Your thoughts are appreciated, as ultimately I think I'd like to sell the HE-5s and get the 404LEs to go with the eXStatA, if not just stick with the LNS or go all the way and get O2s.