Hopstretch Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Price unknown, but if it's sensible they should sell plenty. Since this is almost certainly using the exact same receiver board that's in the Wavelength and Ayre USB DACs, it'll probably also be upgradable to support 192kHz sample rates eventually.
some1x Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Its supposed to be around $900. There will be an *ahem* 44/16 version made by 3rd party, for $500.
Grahame Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Anyone find the price of this excessive, given the price of a squeezebox (or SB touch) which can be considered an async TCP/IP to S/PDIF (and toslink) converter? or am I missing something?
some1x Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Well, this is supposed to be better than the Squeezebox. It is meant to compete Empirical Audio Off Ramp ($700), Sonicweld Diverter ($1000), Lynx AES16 ($700), etc...
Hopstretch Posted October 4, 2009 Author Report Posted October 4, 2009 I agree $900 would be too much for me. I would have hoped to see the full version at around the $500 price point. Although, basically you are getting a device that converts any computer into a high-quality, jitter-free*, hi-res transport. So there is real value there if you already have a good DAC. * I know, I know.
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 should have bnc output for s/pdif really... ...I^2S would be nice as well
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Well, this is supposed to be better than the Squeezebox. It is meant to compete Empirical Audio Off Ramp ($700), Sonicweld Diverter ($1000), Lynx AES16 ($700), etc... How is it better than a Squeezebox? And what is good about those other things you listed? None of these things will basically make it like your non async usb dac will have async usb (In fact to those pricey things even claim async?). foo_me has an Empirical Audio Offramp whatever and I think he'd be the first to say it is NOT worth 700 dollars. It just reclocks and then sends the reclocked signal to your dac.... frankly the squeezebox is essentially doing the same thing. This wavelength thing probably greatly alleviates the jitter from usb, but is it its even better than say a card that outputs spdif I think it's tough to say... That 70 dollar Chinese thing that also claims to be async usb might be just as good heh. The only reason I'd be interested in an async usb -> spdif converter is 1. For my work rig 2. For some sort of retardedly good meet/transportable rig.... and neither of those justifies a 900 dollar converter, but a 70 dollar thing... sure why not
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 This wavelength thing probably greatly alleviates the jitter from usb, but is it its even better than say a card that outputs spdif I think it's tough to say...fabulously unlikely that this is superior. this makes sense in the Wavelength/Ayre DACs, but going back to jittery S/PDIF (and not using BNC forchrissakes) is a waste......
some1x Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Which sound cards would be good enough? Besides expensive ones like the Lynx AES16. I'm looking to upgrade SPDIF from my motherboard's integrated sound. The Wavelength at least offers isolation from computer power supply.
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 I like my RME hdsp (not digi) 9652. I shot it out with my spectral dac and its dedicated transport (slaved to the dac etc so supposedly as good or better than async usb) and there was a slight difference... it was not subtle enough that 4 different parties without prior communication could pick it out (Minutely less bass quantity/definition, some micro details especially in the high... traditional areas where less jitter help), but subtle enough that none of us thought it was worst the 2-3k price difference between transports and two of us (The owner and I) are very much cost no object guys. The owner has since sold his dedicated transport (For a profit) and bought the same card. It's MSRP'd at 700 bucks or so, but you can find them used on ebay for between 200-400 dollars. I paid about 323 shipped. Why this one and not other RME cards? Well it's the latest of that line and thus has drivers up through Windows Vista at least.. hopefully they aren't dickfaces and release a new card for Windows 7 and stop supporting the 9652 because then I will be sad. If you are a mac user they have drivers, but more then that I can't tell you since I don't roll Mac. Is this card better than other card options? No idea. It's too much of a pain to shoot out so I haven't bothered. RME has quite a rep and I'm a sucker for "0 latency asio" which they claim and I have found to be mostly true and supposedly they have good drivers. If it was 500 bucks I'd probably have done more investigation but 300 didn't make me feel super inclined to ask questions ;p
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Which sound cards would be good enough? Besides expensive ones like the Lynx AES16. I'm looking to upgrade SPDIF from my motherboard's integrated sound. The Wavelength at least offers isolation from computer power supply.You're using a North Star DAC right? Look for something that can do I2S... I recall reading that the ESI Juli@ could be very easily modded to output I2S... --RME HDSPe AIO user
Hopstretch Posted October 4, 2009 Author Report Posted October 4, 2009 fabulously unlikely that this is superior. this makes sense in the Wavelength/Ayre DACs, but going back to jittery S/PDIF (and not using BNC forchrissakes) is a waste...... We'll have to see, but if there is someone who can get this right it's probably Gordon Rankin, since he obsessively measures everything and apparently hates jitter like I hate running out of beer. PS: Nobody gives a shit about BNC. Sorry.
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 We'll have to see, but if there is someone who can get this right it's probably Gordon Rankin, since he obsessively measures everything and apparently hates jitter like I hate running out of beer.Yup... willing to bet it has nice stuff inside - good clock, proper output impedance... PS: Nobody gives a shit about BNC. Sorry. ...but it's all fucked into a cocked hat going out RCA. Sorry. Oh well, easily solved by the savant warranty-voider! Plenty of DACs have shitty S/PDIF receiving circuitry and no dual PLLs, etc... as well
atothex Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 WTF there's a $70 Chinese thing? That's got my attention.
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) We'll have to see, but if there is someone who can get this right it's probably Gordon Rankin, since he obsessively measures everything and apparently hates jitter like I hate running out of beer. PS: Nobody gives a shit about BNC. Sorry. Eh.. I wouldn't throw that much props to Gordon Rankin. Having owned and heard other dacs of his.. I haven't been overly impressed especially for the MSRP. A lot of people are obsessed with jitter. The Empirical Audio guy for one.... sure I think Gordon is a lot more legit, but I wouldn't kneel to him as jitter-god ;p I'm sure this product is pretty good for what it does, but at 900 dollars? My understanding is that writing some firmware to do Async USB doesn't require a genius, but the overlap between competent coder + familiarity with the painful USB spec + interest/design in audio is a rare thing. Fortunately j4cbo is going to do his own solution based on a less outdated chip.. of course he isn't doing something silly like making a spdif reclocker so it'll inside his own dac. Edited October 4, 2009 by Icarium
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Steve Nugent is a bit of a nutter but GR's async usb thing makes a ton of sense for DACs attached directly to a computer via USB... whether you like whatever else is in the DAC after the receiving stuff is another story I haven't heard the Ayre QB-9 thing but am willing to bet it is not too shabby...sweet interface plus neato modern digital filter...
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 WTF there's a $70 Chinese thing? That's got my attention. Musiland Monitor 01 USD 24/192 USB to SPDIF - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio This thing... and I think screaming oranges has one and talks about it somewhere on these forums, but I'm too lazy to dig it up. If the drivers don't suck, which they surely do. Plus if it really is async usb, which as bad as ghetto chinese coders are... it really isn't that impossible to pull off (Supposedly easier than the standard synchronous usb but just not in demand by the rest of humanity lulz) it could be.... So even if like it is async.. the Gordon Rankin thing may be better because it probably doesn't require install of drivers.. but that's more a convenience thing then anything else, but 70 dollars is worth a gamble. It may be a better deal than an M-Audio Transit which is my go to USB -> SPDIF converter option at about the same price.
Hopstretch Posted October 4, 2009 Author Report Posted October 4, 2009 Steve Nugent is a bit of a nutter but GR's async usb thing makes a ton of sense for DACs attached directly to a computer via USB... whether you like whatever else is in the DAC after the receiving stuff is another story Yeah, I've never had any interest in Wavelength's DACs. Too much toobophilia and associated deviant beliefs. But as soon as I heard he'd licensed WaveLink (his code stack for the TAS1020B) to Ayre, it was pant-wetting time. Gordon used to be a programmer and that side of things he has locked down. In operation, it's been completely bulletproof and really seems to do what it says on the box. Dan, it'll be interesting to see what j4cbo comes up with. From what I understand, it's a shedload of work implementing anything along these lines.
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Well you are already kosher since you have it in your Ayre dac ;p I don't in any way dispute that async usb used in conjunction with a solid dac isn't one of the best possible ways to transport some digital. It is just too bad that Gordon's dacs aren't as sexy as the Ayre and more sanely priced. I am only questioning the sanity of someone paying more than 300 bucks for something like this. I mean you might as well buy a squeezebox touch when that comes out (Both will transport 24/96. If you only want redbook than a SB3 should be fine). The difference between the two is pretty much going to depend on which has a better clock and even if one has a vastly superior one then the differences may be exceedingly subtle as reclocking from usb is already probably going to be the main benefit from either solution. More experimentation with the chinese doohickey should be done... January when my self imposed ban on buying audio crap and I'm in I wouldn't expect it to be as good as an in-dac async usb dealio, but if it stacks up well against my RME card and an M-Audio Transit (Which I can borrow for the purposes from my brother) then it is a winner for shizzle. Edited October 4, 2009 by Icarium
deepak Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Well, this is supposed to be better than the Squeezebox. It is meant to compete Empirical Audio Off Ramp ($700), Sonicweld Diverter ($1000), Lynx AES16 ($700), etc... The AES16 can slave/master the word clock, so I don't think the afore mentioned products are meant to be competing with it. edit: Also x2 feckn, I would want BNC as well. Mostly because I'd rather get the Lynx than one of these USB things. Edited October 4, 2009 by deepak
feckn_eejit Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 PS: Nobody gives a shit about BNC. Sorry. edit: Also x2 feckn, I would want BNC as well. Mostly because I'd rather get the Lynx than one of these USB things.Haha, dillhole!
deepak Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Well you are already kosher since you have it in your Ayre dac ;p I don't in any way dispute that async usb used in conjunction with a solid dac isn't one of the best possible ways to transport some digital. It is just too bad that Gordon's dacs aren't as sexy as the Ayre and more sanely priced. I am only questioning the sanity of someone paying more than 300 bucks for something like this. I mean you might as well buy a squeezebox touch when that comes out (Both will transport 24/96. If you only want redbook than a SB3 should be fine). The difference between the two is pretty much going to depend on which has a better clock and even if one has a vastly superior one then the differences may be exceedingly subtle as reclocking from usb is already probably going to be the main benefit from either solution. More experimentation with the chinese doohickey should be done... January when my self imposed ban on buying audio crap and I'm in I wouldn't expect it to be as good as an in-dac async usb dealio, but if it stacks up well against my RME card and an M-Audio Transit (Which I can borrow for the purposes from my brother) then it is a winner for shizzle. The Squeezebox is ok, I think they need to optimize their server software a lot. My software interface and the SB3 lags quite a bit with my music collection (and I have 6 GB of memory in the server) But if I have everything loaded in foobar2000 it works perfectly with no lag and doesn't use that much resources. This is with a much slower laptop with only 1 GB of memory.
atothex Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 The Squeezebox is ok, I think they need to optimize their server software a lot. My software interface and the SB3 lags quite a bit with my music collection (and I have 6 GB of memory in the server) Oh yeah? I've never owned a Squeezebox, but I've been thinking about it. That's pretty weak.
Icarium Posted October 4, 2009 Report Posted October 4, 2009 Yeah I dunno haven't had much experience with it myself, and I'm hoping the Touch will be better, but I figured I'd chat with my boy j4cbo or perhaps that british mofo Grahame for the secrets of squeezebox optimization!
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