Upgrading DAC or buy new phone - need advise

[Currawong]

I used a CryoParts PCLink II for USB -> coax and it was fine. I'd go that route with the Neko or whatever the guys here recommend then later down the track, if you want to go all crazy with insanely expensive converters, you can. Either way, the only other thing you'll need is a Canare/Blue Jeans digital cable with the appropriate connections between the adaptor and DAC.

[NekoAudio]

i2s sends the timing data to the clock so that it doesn't need to reclock, right?

If the USB -> I2S signal generation is being influenced by incoming USB jitter, then there would be jitter on the I2S clock. In the same way an S/PDIF -> I2S receiver may carry S/PDIF jitter into its I2S output.

There's still jitter with I2S--it's just that you aren't going to use your own clock to try and figure out when to take samples so your data samples should always be correct. If you transport I2S over a cable, the wires also better be close enough in length that you don't have any of the signals arrive at the wrong time. In which case your data sample would be incorrect. (This is a problem with very long HDMI cables.)

I believe even when using asynchronous USB transfers undesirable I2S jitter can result if the USB receiver hits an unexpected delay. Just because the DAC is in control of when data gets asked for doesn't mean the computer is guaranteed to deliver that data when asked.

[skullguise]

PM sent to OP about my Opus DAC FS.....SPDIF in, with SE and Balanced out.

Used this briefly with one of those original PCLink buggers from Cryoparts, and it was pretty fine...lossy MP3's, but sounded a heck of a lot better than any other way I listened....

[cetoole]

I believe even when using asynchronous USB transfers undesirable I2S jitter can result if the USB receiver hits an unexpected delay. Just because the DAC is in control of when data gets asked for doesn't mean the computer is guaranteed to deliver that data when asked.

If it is bad enough, it is possible to drop bits, but the data is all fifo buffered in the receiver, so I dont really see how jitter would be present on the interface. Yeah, you will get some new jitter in the DAC, but this would have to be far less significant than what you would get from a recovered clock scenario. Plus, you can use that nice, clean clock to reclock the data again as it leaves the digital filter.

[NekoAudio]

If it is bad enough, it is possible to drop bits, but the data is all fifo buffered in the receiver, so I dont really see how jitter would be present on the interface. Yeah, you will get some new jitter in the DAC, but this would have to be far less significant than what you would get from a recovered clock scenario. Plus, you can use that nice, clean clock to reclock the data again as it leaves the digital filter.

I only think something bad would happen if the computer was prevented from, or was delayed in, responding to the interrupt. At which point I guess you have a choice: send out an incorrect value while keeping the clock, or delay the next value a little bit.

[forbigger]

One of the reason for me to upgrade DAC is to see what and how good are other DAC out there as to be honest the only DAC I have listened to extensively is my Pico and eventhough I have done a very brief audition like listening to 2-3 tracks (and those tracks are not my familiar tracks) on Benchmark and Lavry, it simply not enough to conclude the quality of these DAC. Although my impression is that Benchmark is a better DAC than Lavry in the overall presentation and sound signature. And also I see my path of upgrade is to go balance eventually hence my choice of balance DAC

This thread has opened my horizon further about other possibilities and to be honest I started to doubt on whether I should upgrade further if my source is still a mere notebook - to quote what athotex have said above.

Perhaps I should get a better source like CDP player before thinking further on upgrading other components ie. DAC, etc. But problems with CDP is that I have to play the disc one by one which I absolutely hated. I must admit that during the chat room a member have suggested Denon 2900 for around $200-250 used but till now I still couldnt find it on 230V.

Am I being unreasonable to expect a better sonic quality if I stick with notebook as source even though I upgrade the DAC and go balance eventually? Is it a trade off on sound quality between the inconvenience of switching disc one by one on CDP compared to having 1000 songs on the notebook ??

Your thoughts folks ? Thank you

[The Monkey]

Your computer is fine as a transport. Get a DAC.

[cetoole]

I only think something bad would happen if the computer was prevented from, or was delayed in, responding to the interrupt. At which point I guess you have a choice: send out an incorrect value while keeping the clock, or delay the next value a little bit.

Yeah, you would probably drop bits if it is delayed for more than the buffer can handle. I just kinda doubt that this is a real issue, unless you are having other PC problems, and then you would generally have the same issues with an adaptive solution, or PCI soundcard outputting SPDIF (which is what I currently use).

Your computer is fine as a transport. Get a DAC.

x2

[The Monkey]

Upgradeable how?

From a guy at Bryston, posting on audiocircle.com (BDA-1 -- News?)

Hi,

Yes the USB input on the BDA-1 is 48K/16 bit and is an I2S input. (The BDA-1 will synchronously upsample it to 192/24 if you wish). The BDA-1 will do NATIVE resolutions from 44.1K -192K. So if you have a 44, 48, 88, or 96K, signal it does not upsample it (unless you want it to) but passes it through untouched. If you have a 176K or 192K then there is no upsampling.

It's a bit of a moving target at the moment but we assume that higher-res USB chips will become available as higher-res downloads gain more favour in the future and we can retrofit the USB chip at that time. (Actually I am having a tough time finding a laptop that has a sound card capable of 96/24 let alone 192/24) I have been told that MAC claims they can do 192/24 on the firewire output but so far I have not been able to get above 96/24.

Most of the quality soundcards output on COAX and they are capable of 192/24 which is the choice I would make if I wanted a high-res computer playback system. Also I see wireless streaming products increasing their hi-res capability as we move forward which also uses a COAX input. Some Pro soundcards like the Lynx Studio AES 16e PCI express offer 192/24bit output to an AES EBU input which is available on the BDA-1.

Also we may find that HDMI may subplant USB as we move forward for high-res audio playback --- who knows?

james

PS -rumors are the next generation of iPods will have a digital out - though I expect it will be limited to 44.1/16.

The above is from August 2008, so I'll see if I can get some more info (obviously the iPod rumor turned out not to be true).

[NekoAudio]

I just kinda doubt that this is a real issue, unless you are having other PC problems, and then you would generally have the same issues with an adaptive solution, or PCI soundcard outputting SPDIF (which is what I currently use).

I wouldn't worry about it in real life either. I just entered debate for sake-of-debate mode.

Your computer is fine as a transport. Get a DAC.

+1 for using your laptop as the transport. Coax is fine if the DAC is isolating the input as it should be, otherwise I'd recommend optical instead.

[cetoole]

I wouldn't worry about it in real life either. I just entered debate for sake-of-debate mode.

+1 for using your laptop as the transport. Coax is fine if the DAC is isolating the input as it should be, otherwise I'd recommend optical instead.

Pulse transformers ftw.

[forbigger]

Ok folks...... i will take it to my consideration but most likely whatever DAC i'm going to buy, i'm going to buy used since i'm entering a different realm already which is pretty serious audio stuff. thanks

[Tachikoma]

Actually, there's a 3rd option: Get the SD card player at diyaudio.com I like the idea of SD-card transports: it avoids the fundemental problems plaguing PC/CD transports and with a 32gb card, they have enough storage for me.

[The Monkey]

Ok folks...... i will take it to my consideration but most likely whatever DAC i'm going to buy, i'm going to buy used since i'm entering a different realm already which is pretty serious audio stuff. thanks

Get one that is very heavy.

[screaming oranges]

The Monarchy M24 is pretty heavy. Coldkeith over at head-fi is selling it, and he bought the unit from me. His username is "diebenkorn" here at headcase. Of course, you'd need a USB-SPDIF converter.

I've only used two converters: the Trends Audio UD10.1 and the Musiland Monitor 01 USD.

The Monitor is a little over 1/2 the price of the Trends and, to be honest, I have been going back and forth with it and the Trends and I can't hear a difference. Whatever subtle differences there might be are beyond my ears.

Of course, the Trends UD10.1 also doubles as a cheap DAC/amp too. There is also a Trends lite version, but I don't know what they took out to make it "lite".

[forbigger]

@screaming oranges - Thanks but already sold......

@tachikoma - my music collection is about 25gb at the moment and I'm afraid with the current economical pricing of 32 it wont bring much too far into my future

@themonkey - heavy ? I wanted to buy used because I cant afford new and some of the used dac out there have some pretty good price. Moreover, I can wait......

[Duggeh]

Of course, the Trends UD10.1 also doubles as a cheap DAC/amp too. There is also a Trends lite version, but I don't know what they took out to make it "lite".

The XLR and BNC connectors insofar as I can tell.

[screaming oranges]

@screaming oranges - Thanks but already sold......

I don't see it as sold. He was linking to the thread I made myself where I say it is sold. My name is 1117 over at head-fi. He was pointing to my thread as source material for his own sale of the unit.

Unless he specifically told you it is sold, I believe it's still available.

[forbigger]

@screamingoranges : Can I just ask you if the DAC is 230V ? I need 220-230V current. Thanks

[screaming oranges]

@screamingoranges : Can I just ask you if the DAC is 230V ? I need 220-230V current. Thanks

Nah, it's American 110v

I dont remember if this can be altered, though. Ask the seller, he has the unit.

[NekoAudio]

Get one that is very heavy.

Or ask the seller to glue a few rocks inside, so you'll think it is heavy and thus better. Your friends will never know.

[manaox2]

Or ask the seller to glue a few rocks inside, so you'll think it is heavy and thus better. Your friends will never know.

We demand pics.

[Tachikoma]

@tachikoma - my music collection is about 25gb at the moment and I'm afraid with the current economical pricing of 32 it wont bring much too far into my future

Well its not like the SD card is meant to be used for permanent storage 32gb even at high res should have enough music to last me till the next time I update the card.

[guzziguy]

Or ask the seller to glue a few rocks inside, so you'll think it is heavy and thus better. Your friends will never know.

Don't laugh, we saw glued stacks of quarters being used for ballast in a switch box at DanJam.

[cetoole]

2 pence pieces, actually. Opened it to try and figure out what was rattling...