Any thoughts on Meier Cantate and equivalent alternatives?

[morphsci]

...

Also please note I source off CDs and some SACD & DVD-A primarily with reasonably good to high quality gear & cables - not MP3s and such off a computer or iPod or similar - All of these IME can make a big difference to how something sounds, before you even get to your amp and speakers or headphones.

...

In the 21st century computer audio ≠ "mp3's and such"

[Mycenius]

In the 21st century computer audio ≠ "mp3's and such"

[Mycenius]

I'm big on hearing before putting money down, but since it seems your choices are limited as you're wanting to hear before you buy, I'm not sure any suggestions we might make will make any difference to you. If I were you, I'd try out a few things, choose what you like best and be done with it.

Thanks for the comments Boomana - yes that may well be the case - If I had been listening to audiophile quality cans for a couple of years and had an existing amp (& benchmark), plus the experience & knowledge time brings of the web community (like here), reviewers, manufacturers, etc, it'd be a bit less hard/risky to buy 'blind' from overseas but at this stage I just don't have the confidence (in this area of audiophilia) to make that sort of commitment...

...and I accept that may mean I end up deciding to upgrade the amp in 12-18 months if necessary...

BTW, I'm not a fan of crossfeed in headphone amps: unnecessary and gimmicky.

OK - that's good to know - its usually associated with reducing fatigue so I assume you don't find that issue?

Appreciate you taking the time to contribute.

Minor Update: Also hoping to get a Grado RA1 Amp to try as well... Possibly could get a Rega Ear from the local distributor also but just doesn't excite me (or it seems anyone for that matter looking at a couple of reviews/comments). Pity Musical Fidelity are no longer in NZ as it might have been nice to at least trial an X or V series Amp alongside the others...

[Beefy]

Guys - appreciate any ongoing input - just to update things - Am now looking at trialling Grado RS1's alongside the other phones (this will be in a couple of days) as no RS2's available locally at present.

Despite not having heard either the Alessandro MS-Pro might be an alternative to the RS-1. Should be considerably cheaper to get in NZ than the equivalent Grado.

Minor Update: Also hoping to get a Grado RA1 Amp to try as well... Possibly could get a Rega Ear from the local distributor also but just doesn't excite me (or it seems anyone for that matter looking at a couple of reviews/comments). Pity Musical Fidelity are no longer in NZ as it might have been nice to at least trial an X or V series Amp alongside the others...

Good god, don't buy a Rega......

or an RA-1

[Mycenius]

Despite not having heard either the Alessandro MS-Pro might be an alternative to the RS-1. Should be considerably cheaper to get in NZ than the equivalent Grado.

Thanks Beefy - the Alessandro would need to come out of Australia as I don't think there is an NZ distributor - list price is AU$959 (at Headphonic) less AU GST add NZ GST & Freight convert $ equals about NZ$1050 or so (+ any import duty if applicable - not sure on that)... List Price for RS1 is about $1495...

I have heard that the Grado profile is modified on the units used by Alessandro - so not actually near-identical in performance?

[Mycenius]

Good god, don't buy a Rega......

or an RA-1

OK.

But shouldn't the sound be what matters?

[Beefy]

I have heard that the Grado profile is modified on the units used by Alessandro - so not actually near-identical in performance?

As I said, I haven't heard them. Just something I thought you could consider if you were looking at the RS-1.

And while I would definitely recommend Headphonic for an Australian, it makes a bit less sense for a New Zealander. So you can also buy direct from Alessandro for US$699.

But shouldn't the sound be what matters?

When you can build a virtually identical Cmoy for less than 1/10th the price, that idea flies out the window for me.

[Mycenius]

...list price is AU$959 (at Headphonic) less AU GST add NZ GST & Freight convert $ equals about NZ$1050 or so (+ any import duty if applicable - not sure on that)...

Sorry - forgot to convert the peso - it's about NZ$1350 all up (plus as mentioned any duty if NZ has duty on electronics - I think these are free of duty). As mentioned NZ RS1 about $1495... In both cases there may be discount - certain I'd get something on the RS1's I believe sourced locally...

And while I would definitely recommend Headphonic for an Australian, it makes a bit less sense for a New Zealander. So you can also buy direct from Alessandro for US$699.

Hhmm, good point - that'd be about NZ$1250 or so at current exchange rate... (again assuming no duty).

[HeadphoneAddict]

I've also been told by headphone guy locally the Firestone CUTE Beyond amp is a very good match for the Grado sound colour - and can effectively be given a bit of an upgrade by replacing the external power supply... Considered a superior amp to the Cantate but lacks crossfeed function and obviously no integral DAC - am hoping to have 3 amps side by side initially for comparison (once I've identified which set of cans I probably prefer)...

I thought the Cute Beyond was a better match with the Grados than the Meier Headfive (which I suppose is like an Arietta), and you could change the opamps to tune the sound if needed. A good PSU will help as well. They are decent low end amps, but I think you would still like a Cavalli CTH, or Millett, or other tube hybrid with the Grados better. I just don't understand the aversion to amps with tubes.

REVIEW: Firestone Audio Amps - Cute Beyond and Fubar III - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

[skullguise]

It's been a while, but I owned an RS-1 and had good fun with Eddie Current's EC/SS amp. The EC/SS also sounded good with some Beyer 880's I had (and I didn't love the Beyers with much else).

IIRC, the EC/SS runs off a wall wart, and it may be fine with NZ voltage. They don't come up used too often, but I think they could be a good deal despite the opamps....

In my brief audition with other phones, though, the EC/SS didn't fair as well (AKG 701's were kind of plain and lifeless, as I recall).

Otherwise, I'd probably vote for the M^3 as well.

[Mycenius]

...but I think you would still like a Cavalli CTH, or Millett, or other tube hybrid with the Grados better. I just don't understand the aversion to amps with tubes.

Long-term I'd happily consider them HeadphoneAddict, but as this part of my audiophile experience is 'all new' I want to (try to) stick with what I know - I haven't got to the point of using tubes for my main rig at all over the years, heck I haven't even seriously looked a pre/power amp combo (more for space reasons & the fact that the newer integrateds perform much better than they did some years ago). I'm simply not up to speed with valve amps 'per se' so reluctant to go that route as an HP novice...

Having said that until I listen to a few I have no real benchmark to work from - I'm getting a stack of stuff to trial in a couple of days - once I start listening I'll have a better idea in my head... And I'll be able to make more meaningful specific comments - that may end up leading down a road like tubes... Alternatively as Boomana said it may end up being simplest short term to try as many as I can find locally, and if the one that seems the best ends up I also like it (enthusiastically) then just get that to get started and get on with listening and getting some experience and knowledge?

Thanks for posting the review link too HeadphoneAddict - much appreciated & very interesting, especially the stuff about how forward the presentation is...

...IIRC, the EC/SS runs off a wall wart, and it may be fine with NZ voltage. ....Otherwise, I'd probably vote for the M^3 as well.

Thanks for the input Skullguise - yeah I'd expect most Warts today to be multi-voltage and handle 110V & 220V-240V fine - although I suppose some US one's might still be 110V only?

[Beefy]

I just don't understand the aversion to amps with tubes.

In this price range, it seems very much the case that tube amps are a specific tool for a specific purpose with specific phones. Not exactly the best suggestion for somebody who wants to get started with a single amp that will do well for many things.

Thanks for the input Skullguise - yeah I'd expect most Warts today to be multi-voltage and handle 110V & 220V-240V fine - although I suppose some US one's might still be 110V only?

Depends on whether it is switching or linear regulated. Switching wallwarts have no problems with multi-voltage, but they aren't as good quality as a linear regulated one that needs a specific input voltage. You have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. Worst case scenario, you buy a new wallwart from Farnell or equivalent supplier. But you should only worry about that when you have actually found something you are specifically interested in.

[Mycenius]

In this price range, it seems very much the case that tube amps are a specific tool for a specific purpose with specific phones. Not exactly the best suggestion for somebody who wants to get started with a single amp that will do well for many things.

Yeah that's pretty much it Beefy - however just to confuse the issue I see the local importer for Little Dot has the "Little Dot I+ Hybrid Amplifier" available for only about US$115 - I'm quite happy to spend a hundred bucks to grab something like that just to play with as a way to get an initial look at hybrids and provide an alternate comparison to the other amp units I'll trial - especially as a way to just gain listening experience... I'm endeavouring to search out the reviews on it here & at Head-Fi but any comments - is it a reasonable hybrid unit (for the money) or is it too tainted/coloured/etc...?

The distributor also has the "Little Dot MK III Tube Amp" for about US$245 - I could probably live with stretching to that alternatively if its a reasonable entry-level valve unit...?

I may well go the Grado RS1 or RS2 or Alessandro MS Pro path for the cans right from the start so I suppose even an entry-level hybrid /valve unit would be good to have? (I'm assuming of course these units are okay to drive the above headphones - didn't see anything to contrary in specs but still to read reviews?)

Depends on whether it is switching or linear regulated. Switching wallwarts have no problems with multi-voltage, but they aren't as good quality as a linear regulated one that needs a specific input voltage. You have to look at it on a case-by-case basis. Worst case scenario, you buy a new wallwart from Farnell or equivalent supplier. But you should only worry about that when you have actually found something you are specifically interested in.

Right - yeah I've always preferred dedicated fixed voltage units for any good gear for IT stuff...

[Beefy]

I see the local importer for Little Dot has the "Little Dot I+ Hybrid Amplifier" available for only about US$115 - I'm quite happy to spend a hundred bucks to grab something like that just to play with

....The distributor also has the "Little Dot MK III Tube Amp" for about US$245 - I could probably live with stretching to that alternatively if its a reasonable entry-level valve unit...?

....I may well go the Grado RS1 or RS2 or Alessandro MS Pro path for the cans right from the start so I suppose even an entry-level hybrid /valve unit would be good to have? (I'm assuming of course these units are okay to drive the above headphones - didn't see anything to contrary in specs but still to read reviews?)

I wouldn't bother with the Little Dot myself. If you want something relatively inexpensive for a play around with tubes, then I can confirm that the Millett Max variants are pretty damn good...... I've built 3, sold 2 of them to very happy buyers, and still use the 3rd almost every day at work. A well built/configured Millett certainly still rates above the Arietta/Cantate to my ears.

But as much as I love the Millett and enjoyed building them, I do still think that the M3 is a better all-round amp. For starters, the M3 has a much lower noise floor. With the 12AE6 tubes the Millett can match the bass, but not the treble; with 12FK6 tubes the Millett can match the treble, but not the bass.

[Fungi]

Real quick, Headfive < Opera <<< M^3. I have been unfortunate enough to actually own an Opera. When I heard the M^3, the music came alive. Guess who's not buying anything Meier again

[atothex]

Yeah, I know it's pretty intimidating being new to amps and all, but it's really quite simple. If the amp isn't mentioned here, it's probably not worth considering. It's much easier to list good amps than bad amps, right? There are plenty of good amps to choose from, anyways.

HF-friendly analogy: why waste your time/money auditioning Skullcandies when you could be picking among Senn/Grado/Stax/AT?

[TC_Shadow]

Real quick, Headfive < Opera <<< M^3. I have been unfortunate enough to actually own an Opera. When I heard the M^3, the music came alive. Guess who's not buying anything Meier again

Cmoy << Pimeta < PPAv1 < PPA v2 = M^3 (Rockhopper w/ 8610 and STEPS) = Presonus CS = DV 336/332 = G-lite < DV336SE << Opera == SPL Auditor/Phonitor =< Dynahi < DV 337 (high imp cans only) < B52

My first impression of M^3 was literally -- "that's it?"

either something was wrong with your opera, or we had an operator error (I suspect you had a imp mismatch between your source and opera

[jinp6301]

Meh, I thought the Opera wasnt that great as well. My M^3 sounded way more natural and smoother.

[TC_Shadow]

Meh, I thought the Opera wasnt that great as well. My M^3 sounded way more natural and smoother.

What type of music do you generally listen to?

Fungi: you can chime in on this question as well.

[manaox2]

Cmoy << Pimeta < PPAv1 < PPA v2 = M^3 (Rockhopper w/ 8610 and STEPS) = Presonus CS = DV 336/332 = G-lite < DV336SE << Opera == SPL Auditor/Phonitor =< Dynahi < DV 337 (high imp cans only) < B52

My first impression of M^3 was literally -- "that's it?"

either something was wrong with your opera, or we had an operator error (I suspect you had a imp mismatch between your source and opera

I personally don't know anything about you, but I don't trust your tastes in much already for stuff I would like. People do have different tastes.

[Beefy]

My first impression of M^3 was literally -- "that's it?"

Who was it built by? OPAMPS? Other parts?

or we had an operator error (I suspect you had a imp mismatch between your source and opera

The smiley doesn't take away the silliness of that statement.

[TC_Shadow]

i don't see how the B52 could possibly be better than a Dyanahi, simply because the first indent on the B52's attenuator is almost too loud, and the second indent is definitely too loud. with HD600s, anyway.

I was up 3-4 indent (the source was Rega Saturn) ....with HD650... am I deaf?

HD650 benefits greatly from going balanced, B52 is balanced and Dynahi isn't.

Never heard Dynamite, maybe that's better than B52..I wouldn't know.

[TC_Shadow]

Who was it built by? OPAMPS? Other parts?

The smiley doesn't take away the silliness of that statement.

Rockhopper, AD 8610 w/ STEPS

Opera has an input imp of 12Kohm which is very low IMO and hard to match with.

[Beefy]

Rockhopper, AD 8610 w/ STEPS

Must be an operator error then.

[Dusty Chalk]

Fucking imps. I don't think it was a mismatch, but rather that you had imps in your signal path at all.