Any thoughts on Meier Cantate and equivalent alternatives?

[Mycenius]

Hi All,

I have just signed up as I am getting into the world of cans for the first time (at least at an audiophile level) - much like Forbigger in his Suggestion for desktop amps......current budget overstretch thread I've been looking at a Corda Cantate (as its what a local distributor has available, note: its not a Cantate.2) but see it seems not an overly popular unit here (getting a little 'shot down' as Forbigger said). However as I am in NZ there is a limit to what's available locally from distributors to try out in the range I'm looking...

Anyway I'm after a good value mid-range home use type amp (i.e. not a portable), it'll be for a secondary set up that I only use occasionally instead of my primary for music (see my signature for details of the components in my primary set up plus my secondary set-up) - as mentioned at this stage I'm looking at the Cantate as my preference is to buy a fairly good amp and just get some fairly well matched entry level cans initially and then (hopefully) just upgrade the headphones after a year or two if I am giving them enough use...

Anyway some basic thoughts on what I'm thinking:

1. Looking in the sub-US$400 price range if possible for the amp,*
   
2. I'm a tactile person so want something that looks good and you can touch where possible, not a fan of the appearance of the small cigarette packet type amps that look like they'll get dragged off the table by the weight of the leads,
   
3. Generally like a slightly warm experience to my music, with headroom, and well developed bass and don't mind a forward presentation,
   
4. Unit will be driven by sources in my sig below - either from tape out feed on Plinius (supplying CDs from MF A3.2 CDP or SACD/DVD-A from Oppo BDP-83); or by a direct connection with my NAD C521BEE for CDs or rarely directly to my Denon 640 Cassette Deck (neither is currently used in either of my other set-ups), and may also source from a Creative Zen Neon portable or similar on very rare occasions,
   
5. Integral DAC is desired but not essential to allow occasional use with both PC (64-bit Windows) and Laptop (32-bit Windows) - prefer that to having a separate DAC if possible, but would sacrifice DAC to get really good Amp around my price point (if there was one with no DAC included)...
   
6. At this stage would be looking at probably pairing with the best match for sound & comfort of the following entry level cans; Grado SR60 or SR80 (not the new 'i' models); AKG K530; Audio Technica ATH-A900; or something similar,
   
7. Musical Taste: Very varied - basically everything except Country, Rap or Modern Hip-Hop, & modern R&B. Listen to lots of female vocalists (e.g. Eleanor McEvoy; Loreena McKennitt; Holly Cole), lots of Indie & Punk Rock & New Wave/Post-Punk (Pearl Jam, Greenday, Evermore, Ben Harper, Blondie, Talking Heads, etc), the rock classics (like Bowie, Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, R.Stones, The Who, Hendrix); some Classical - especially Mozart, Jazz (mostly older 'classic' recordings), Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ry Cooder, Graham Parker, B.Eno, bit of Blues, some Heavy Metal (AC/DC, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Ozzy & Sabbath, etc), lots of guitar stuff (like Manzanera & Satriani), a little Pop & early R&B/Hip-Hop (e.g. Grandmaster Melle Mel, Finley Quaye, Osibisa), and I just bought the Beatles Remastered (the Mono box set & half-a dozen of the Stereo albums) for example...
   

* I'm just not prepared to spend the dosh on something like a Serenade.2 or a B22 or anything like that (i.e. US$1,000+)... Might consider a Corda Opera (if any still floating around) once I've trialled the Cantate and seen what it sounds like (on the basis the Opera is a step up if I generally like the Cantate sound but it doesn't get me sold) - but want to try and get Amp & Headphones for under perhaps US$650-$700 all up.

Sorry - that's turned into a bit of a novel - anyway appreciate any feedback, criticism, advice, thoughts on units... Where possible I want to try buy something that has a distributor in NZ, or otherwise at worst Australia...

Many TIA for any advice.

[Beefy]

You should be able to find a very nice M3 for that price range that will trounce the Cantate.

Background: I listened to both the Arietta and Cantate almost two years ago and bought the Arietta because the Cantate didn't sound that much better. But then I got into DIY and built myself an M3; needless to say, the Arietta was sold very soon after. The M3 was smoother across the entire frequency range, but at the same time still managed better bass impact and treble sparkle.

I can honestly still see how the Arietta/Swing would be a good entry level amp if you have easy to drive phones, but the Cantate just really doesn't make good buying sense.

[Icarium]

All the headphones you mentioned are low impedance which is good times.

I've heard m^3s seem to do well with grados? So that's definitely an option. I'd look at a gilmore lite or the ckkiii as well. If you can get the gilmore lite with a dps or have a sigma22 made (possibly even better) or a gilmore v2/v2 se. I imagine anny combination of that will run you between 200-500 dollars...

The gilmore lite though if you discount the wallwart or a power supply will almost for sure be too small for your needs... the ckkiii and m^3 are in general larger units. Personally I prefer dynalos (Gilmore Lite/GS-1/GS-X) which scale exceptional well with better power supplies (Sigma22 and whatever Justin has that isn't a wall wart). They have the edge with regards to clarity/low noise floor/micro details. The CKKIII is no slouch though and has a fuller yet not overly lush/warm sound, with more bass than the gilmore lite with wall wart (With a better power supply though this flips heavily to the Dynalo's advantage). The M^3 I'm less familiar with but It is a pretty powerful amp with some customization options with regards to op amps and power supply. I just have bias against it because I like my solid state fully discrete

Then I'd get a sonic frontiers trans dac/parasound dac1000 (Sounds better stock I think to the 1100 but doesn't do hdcd)/parasound dac1100 for another 100-350 bucks and be set. The trans dac is about the size of a benchmark (I don't know if that's tooo small for your requirements). I'm guessing the pico is out of the question due to need for spdif input and size requirements. The parasound stuff are hefty pieces of vintage gear. If you need hirez though they are out as well.

Oh yeah this is really what I think is an optimal sub-1000 dollar rig. Even people who don't agree with my taste/recommendations probably will admit that it will slaughter the fuck out of a meier cantate. My opinion is meier stuff is terrible, which sucks since Jan Meier is a really nice dude who has really contributed a lot to the community esp with regards to HE90s ;p, but yeah I find his stuff a terrible value at any price. Very thin/sterile sounding without being at least compensating with detail....

Oh yeah.. I dunno if you are interested in tubes or not.. but.. I can't think of anything I'd be interested in at ~500 dollar level that isnt DIY. Maybe falkon's Trafomatic Head One.. but I think it's 900 new so.. might be too close to 1k. Used is tough since it's a rare head-fi/head-case purchase. If DIY is option a spud or a modified spud is probably what i"d look at. Just don't go OTL for low impedance cans and if you go transformer coupled then don't get something with cheap/shitty transformers.. sadly that's tough to do ~500... though maybe some used woo stuff qualifies too dunno.

Edited September 13, 2009 by Icarium

[Mycenius]

Beefy & Icarium - thanks for the prompt responses - much appreciated.

I will confess that although I have the skills I don't have hte inclination to do DIY stuff - I'd sooner buy a nice tidy commercially assembled unit - although I'd buy a DIY type unit through one of those guys who build on your behalf, etc...

I chap here in NZ has a B22 from the same AMB team as the M3 - incidentally can you point me to any good operators who sell assembled M3's to give me an idea of the costs and such? I need to keep in mind too that if I ended up sourcing outside NZ the cost needs to allow for the GST (12.5%) plus any duty (I'd have to check that, plus freight - so base unit cost would need to be more like US$300 or thereabouts (as NZ GST would add about $40, plus if it came out of the USA the postage from there is now ridiculously expensive to NZ/Australia - about x2 or more what it is going the other way).

All the headphones you mentioned are low impedance which is good times.

Yeah I've seen that mentioned a couple of times... Certainly with my main gear I've gone that way with my Speaker s- my Chario's on my main set up are 4 ohm, and IIRC I think my Klipsch SB-1's are 6 ohm, vs. the more common 8 ohm for most speakers... The Charios give a lovely rich warm tint to the sound driven by the Plinius but don't overdo it (so Heavy Rock & Metal still have that slightly hard edge to the sound when appropriate and don't get smothered or softened). I'm hoping to get something similar from a Headphone & HP Amp combo...

I've heard m^3s seem to do well with grados? So that's definitely an option. I'd look at a gilmore lite or the ckkiii as well. If you can get the gilmore lite with a dps or have a sigma22 made (possibly even better) or a gilmore v2/v2 se. I imagine anny combination of that will run you between 200-500 dollars... The gilmore lite though if you discount the wallwart or a power supply will almost for sure be too small for your needs...

Yeah I'd certainly like to try and get a semi-reasonable amp - I'm happy to buy entry level cans initially and expect to upgrade/replace in a year or two based on (a) performance, and ( how much time I commit to the headphone rig vs. my main primary rig. If I'm only using it 4-5 hours a month and the sound (with mid-range Amp and entry cans) is 80%+ what my main rig is then I'd be happy (for a while at least). I don't expect to get it perfect first time, nor do I expect to be happy forever with whatever I get - it's just a case of mitigating the expense in relation to the perceived performance, I don't want to risk a big expense to get something I may not be happy with after a few months and/or that I may end up only using a couple of hours a month!

That's one reason I'm not too put off by the comments on the Cantate at present - if I listen and like it (and no preconceptions there, but I am starting from scratch so judgement will be vs. full sized speaker set up), and I get it at the right price, it may be a good option to get me started and give me a chance to get seriously into the world of cans and concentrate on the headphones themselves...

At the end of the day when starting out I guess it's principally about providing a sensible starting point - a baseline - that you can grow from and draw experience from without having something that's completely horrible!

...I'm guessing the pico is out of the question due to need for spdif input and size requirements...

SPDIF not important at this stage Icarium - all I want for input is Analogue RCA inputs and in an ideal world USB+DAC for use with PC/etc... I buy my sources for music primarily based on how they sound (i.e. using their internal DACs) not on having an Amp do the conversion - the Musical Fidelity A3.2 CDP is a fantastic unit (despite being 6 or 7 year old design - I've had mine 6 years almost exactly), and the NAD C521BEE is (or was) highly regarded as an entry level CDP - I actually plan on having the later as my source about half the time (as it's not in a rig at present) and the MF A3.2 (& Oppo BDP-83 for SACD/DVD-A) the other half...

I can honestly still see how the Arietta/Swing would be a good entry level amp if you have easy to drive phones, but the Cantate just really doesn't make good buying sense.

I assume low impedance phones rules that out...? Would the Swing actually be a fair get started option to build some time/experience? (and save some bucks for a later upgrade in a year or two?)

Beefy - what sort of cost comparison is it between what you spent for an Arietta vs. what you spent on the M3 (jsut ball park) - I mean if you spent 2-3 times as much you'd expect that performance gain, wouldn't you?

My opinion is meier stuff is terrible, which sucks since Jan Meier is a really nice dude who has really contributed a lot to the community esp with regards to HE90s ;p, but yeah I find his stuff a terrible value at any price. Very thin/sterile sounding without being at least compensating with detail....

I've heard a few fairly reliable people swear by the Opera that's now unavailable... Icarium do you think it's bad value just because you find the sound thin/sterile, or is there more to it than that?

Oh yeah.. I dunno if you are interested in tubes or not..

No, not really mate, sorry - should have been in the list above. I like tube sound but can't be bothered at present - happy to stay with solid state stuff...

but.. I can't think of anything I'd be interested in at ~500 dollar level that isnt DIY.

Hhmmm... Okay... that's a potential concern?

Again - thanks for providing experienced feedback guys...

[Beefy]

I will confess that although I have the skills I don't have hte inclination to do DIY stuff - I'd sooner buy a nice tidy commercially assembled unit - although I'd buy a DIY type unit through one of those guys who build on your behalf, etc...

Just keep an eye on the Head-Fi for sale section. They come up with reasonable frequency.

That's one reason I'm not too put off by the comments on the Cantate at present - if I listen and like it (and no preconceptions there, but I am starting from scratch so judgement will be vs. full sized speaker set up), and I get it at the right price, it may be a good option to get me started and give me a chance to get seriously into the world of cans and concentrate on the headphones themselves...

It will be purely a case of ignorance is bliss. If the only thing you've ever eaten is shit, then shit will taste good.

I assume low impedance phones rules that out...? Would the Swing actually be a fair get started option to build some time/experience? (and save some bucks for a later upgrade in a year or two?)

..... What? No. The Arietta/Swing will be fine for low impedance, high sensitivity phones (but not IEMs; too high a noise floor). Don't like your chances of getting optimal results with more difficult phones though.

Beefy - what sort of cost comparison is it between what you spent for an Arietta vs. what you spent on the M3 (jsut ball park) - I mean if you spent 2-3 times as much you'd expect that performance gain, wouldn't you?

Hmmmmm, the M3 probably cost more than twice the Arietta. But it was my first DIY project, so I learned a lot and could do it much cheaper second time around. The idea of 'twice as good', or x% performance increase is just silly. You either appreciate the increase for the price, or you don't. But I am pretty confident that if you grab a decent M3 from Head-Fi just with an Elpac wallwart, it will be cheaper than a Swing (let alone a Cantate), and it will perform much better.

I've heard a few fairly reliable people swear by the Opera that's now unavailable... Icarium do you think it's bad value just because you find the sound thin/sterile, or is there more to it than that?

Reliable by what standards? Post count? Proficiency of reviews? The number of fawning sycophant non-questioning followers on Head-Fi? Don't believe anything you read. Including everything I have just typed.

But something you definitely should believe...... don't just buy a Cantate because it is convenient, and it doesn't sound truly heinous.

[HeadphoneAddict]

When I was looking for a low cost amp Skylab recommended the Dark Voice 336i over the Meier Cantate (he had both and is a big Meier fan) because he knew that I wanted to use it for HD600.

Although the 336i is not the best for low impedance cans it will do okay with them if you tune it with different tubes; but the synergy with HD600 was great and it kicked butt on my Meier Headfive. So you might consider skipping the SR-60/80 or other low end cans that you mentioned and consider the HD600 with something like the 336i or 336SE. You can get a great sounding set of tubes for the 336i for about $100 (Sylvania VT-231 or an RCA Grey glass VT-231 + a Tung Sol 5998) and be very pleased with the sound. That would fit right in your budget and sound great assuming you have a decent source, and I assume the Oppo would be good enough.

My only complaint was finding half my NOS 6SN7 tubes had hum and needed to be burned-in to improve the hum, but a few tubes never got totally quiet. I did the "fitz" mod myself (bypass caps) and that fixed the issue completely.

PS: Naamanf's DIY M3 was better than the 336i with everything but the HD600, where they were then on a similar level if I recall.

[Mycenius]

Just keep an eye on the Head-Fi for sale section. They come up with reasonable frequency.

Will do.

It will be purely a case of ignorance is bliss. If the only thing you've ever eaten is shit, then shit will taste good.

Yep appreciate that - but it's chickens & eggs to (i.e. how do you know without trying if that's all you have?) - I'm in NZ so limited to what's around locally to trial/compare... And I won't buy blind without hearing something...

..... What? No. The Arietta/Swing will be fine for low impedance, high sensitivity phones (but not IEMs; too high a noise floor). Don't like your chances of getting optimal results with more difficult phones though.

Right - okay - its not really a preferred option to be honest but it is a possible option...

Hmmmmm, the M3 probably cost more than twice the Arietta. But it was my first DIY project, so I learned a lot and could do it much cheaper second time around. The idea of 'twice as good', or x% performance increase is just silly. You either appreciate the increase for the price, or you don't. But I am pretty confident that if you grab a decent M3 from Head-Fi just with an Elpac wallwart, it will be cheaper than a Swing (let alone a Cantate), and it will perform much better.

Yeah sorry mate that's what I mean - if you spent 2-3 times as much you'd expect to appreciate a 'significant' gain/improvement over the alternative to justify the spend - not specifically that it's 2-3 times 'better'... No one spends 3 times as much on something that does exactly the same job as well as what the cheaper one did (well unless you are a multi-millionaire buying a car or yacht or something)...

Take on-board your thoughts on M3 costs...

Reliable by what standards? Post count? Proficiency of reviews? The number of fawning sycophant non-questioning followers on Head-Fi? Don't believe anything you read. Including everything I have just typed.

Haha, yeah of course mate - if enough people say yes it must be right, right? But yep, understand - as mentioned don't really want to buy anything without hearing myself or at very worst having it highly recommended by someone who's judgement I trust or I know has identical tastes to me, etc... (well, in an ideal world at least).

But something you definitely should believe...... don't just buy a Cantate because it is convenient, and it doesn't sound truly heinous.

Understood & taken on board!

[Mycenius]

...the Dark Voice 336i ...336SE. You can get a great sounding set of tubes for the 336i... (Sylvania VT-231 or an RCA Grey glass VT-231 + a Tung Sol 5998)...

PS: Naamanf's DIY M3 was better than the 336i with everything but the HD600, where they were then on a similar level if I recall.

Thanks for taking the time to comment HPA - however as mentioned above not really interested in going the valve-amp route (at least at this time)... Just want a reasonable SS amp solution...

But have noted your last comment re: M3 vs. the 336i.

Cheers.

[atothex]

I don't particularly care for bargain tube amps. They had better have an awesome design, because you're probably either gonna have output impedance issues (OTL) or cheap transformer issues (transformer coupled). If I absolutely had to have a commercial tube amp, it'd only be Trafomatic or Woo or Yamamoto in approximately that order. For DIY, the L'esspressivo is one of the more interesting designs among the cheap tube amps. Can one actually build it for $100, though? Not sure.

If you really have to have a tube in there somewhere, hybrids might be the better choice choice, especially the EHHA or Stacker. Not many people have heard them, so they don't have the rep of an M^3, but they're intriguing for sure.

But since you have no phones or amps, definitely consider IEMs or stats. Think about it. If I were to personally build a bargain rig from scratch, I think I'd get IEMs. $100 or so for a Mini^3 is a lot of money saved on amplification, dontcha think?

Edit: Actually, fuck it. Ignore all that junk above; I don't want to confuse you with too many choices. Get a Dynalo + Sigma22 and AD2000s.

[Sherwood]

me too.

I don't particularly care for bargain tube amps.

Please, sirs, look at these posts and think to yourselves "in what way have i used my time on this earth to contribute positively to the human experience".

Edited September 23, 2009 by Dusty Chalk
removed gif

[mypasswordis]

I don't particularly care for bargain tube amps.

Why do all of this guy's (bot's?) posts have some voodooass gif link at the end that I can't see?

Edited September 14, 2009 by grawk

[Mycenius]

Please, sirs, look at these posts and think to yourselves "in what way have i used my time on this earth to contribute positively to the human experience".

Thank You Sherwood! Can I just say, for the third time, that I am not interested in considering valve/tube amps (at this time), thanks!

FWIW I've arranged that I'll be trying a Firestone Cute Beyond alongside the Cantate later this week, and am hoping to have a third different amp as well if possible (not confirmed yet).

And I'm adding Grado RS2's and possibly also SR125's or SR225's to the headphone selection (i.e. Grado SR60's, SR80's, AKG K530, and AKG K701's) - so I'll have about 5-6 can alternates to try with each amp.

[TC_Shadow]

I didn't care for M^3 all that much when I had it (with STEPS). In comparison with Presonus CS I thought both sounded roughly the same with M^3 provided a little clearer/less smeared sound, and CS had a little better bass and more forward midrange using the HD650. Ofcourse, Dynahi wiped the floor with both.

Dynahi did well with HD650 but not so well with Grados (the midrange is not that sweet and the high were, at times, unbearable)

336/332/337 is very good with HD650 but not so good with Grados (no bass, and thrill highs)

Corda Opera/Symphony is very good with HD650. Comparing to Dynahi, opera does not have as big soundstage, does not hit as hard/as deep; what it does have is a sweet and intimate midrange, which makes any music with a lots of midrange info (practically all jazz/classical/vocal) very seductive. The overall sound is more transparent, even though Opera/Symphony lags behind Dynahi in several aspects. Grado works surprisingly well with Opera/Symphony. No more shrill highs, what Opera/Symphony gave up in the deep bass slam through Dynahi is more than made up with the sweeter and more transparent mids. I feel Opera/Symphony is like the middle ground between all tubes (DV amps) and all discrete SS (Dyna-lo/hi)

I know this does not answer your question, but now you know M^3/Dynahi/lo (e.g. G-lite; GS-1) is not no-brainer that some here are preaching. Buy used, listen for yourself, and make informed decision based on what you think sounds good.

[Mycenius]

But since you have no phones or amps, definitely consider IEMs or stats. Think about it. If I were to personally build a bargain rig from scratch, I think I'd get IEMs.

Thanks Atothex but I'm not into putting anything 'in' my ears (for a couple of reasons I'm not gonna bother going through here) - needless to say IEMs are out... It's proper 'Cans' or nothing at all...

$100 or so for a Mini^3 is a lot of money saved on amplification, dontcha think?

Perhaps... Still a punt in the dark if you can't test drive and there's no guarantee on consistency of build quality, etc...

[Currawong]

Why do all of this guy's (bot's?) posts have some voodooass gif link at the end that I can't see?

It's a spambot indeed.

[grawk]

For future reference, don't quote spambots, it just makes it harder to clean up after them.

[Sherwood]

I'm sorry mister Grawk. I was jus' a tryin' to make the funny...

[Beefy]

Why do all of this guy's (bot's?) posts have some voodooass gif link at the end that I can't see?

I'm guessing that viewing the image plants a cookie...?

I didn't care for M^3 all that much when I had it (with STEPS). In comparison with Presonus CS I thought both sounded roughly the same with M^3 provided a little clearer/less smeared sound, and CS had a little better bass and more forward midrange using the HD650. Ofcourse, Dynahi wiped the floor with both.

Subtle differences in personal taste and comparisons to much more expensive gear aside, it doesn't change the fact that the Cantate doesn't make good buying sense. The OP would be paying a hefty premium for a redundant PCM2702 USB DAC and little-to-no improvement over the Arietta/Swing. I'm highly skeptical that the Opera is that much better, but I haven't heard it either.

Comparatively, the value offered by the M3 is phenomenal, and personal taste issues should be solved quite easily through careful OPAMP selection. The OP can pick essentially any high or low impedance phone they like and be guaranteed it will still do - at the absolute worst - a damn good job.

[Icarium]

I didn't care for M^3 all that much when I had it (with STEPS). In comparison with Presonus CS I thought both sounded roughly the same with M^3 provided a little clearer/less smeared sound, and CS had a little better bass and more forward midrange using the HD650. Ofcourse, Dynahi wiped the floor with both.

Dynahi did well with HD650 but not so well with Grados (the midrange is not that sweet and the high were, at times, unbearable)

336/332/337 is very good with HD650 but not so good with Grados (no bass, and thrill highs)

Corda Opera/Symphony is very good with HD650. Comparing to Dynahi, opera does not have as big soundstage, does not hit as hard/as deep; what it does have is a sweet and intimate midrange, which makes any music with a lots of midrange info (practically all jazz/classical/vocal) very seductive. The overall sound is more transparent, even though Opera/Symphony lags behind Dynahi in several aspects. Grado works surprisingly well with Opera/Symphony. No more shrill highs, what Opera/Symphony gave up in the deep bass slam through Dynahi is more than made up with the sweeter and more transparent mids. I feel Opera/Symphony is like the middle ground between all tubes (DV amps) and all discrete SS (Dyna-lo/hi)

I know this does not answer your question, but now you know M^3/Dynahi/lo (e.g. G-lite; GS-1) is not no-brainer that some here are preaching. Buy used, listen for yourself, and make informed decision based on what you think sounds good.

Amen if the OP can find a dynahi within his price budget and the gain isn't too much for his low impedance headphones (I have it resist attenuated at I think input?) then it is probably my favorite though a dynalo with a top of the line justin power supply/gilmore power supply/sigma22 is comparable. It just depends on if you like a more aggressive sound or a more refined/relaxed sound. As far as resolution/details/mids/lows/highs/soundstaging the rest is all about the same.

I like aggressiveness for a majority of my music

[Beefy]

Amen if the OP can find a dynahi within his price budget

Unfortunately, I doubt even a Trevor Networks Dynahi would be within the budget

[TC_Shadow]

Unfortunately, I doubt even a Trevor Networks Dynahi would be within the budget

In case OP gets lucky and scores a Dynahi for a reasonable amount, just note that dynahi runs extremely hot and takes about 20-30min to warm up from a cold start up; performance fluctuates (DC servo related) until the operating temperature (hot hot hot) is reached

[TC_Shadow]

I'm guessing that viewing the image plants a cookie...?

Subtle differences in personal taste and comparisons to much more expensive gear aside, it doesn't change the fact that the Cantate doesn't make good buying sense. The OP would be paying a hefty premium for a redundant PCM2702 USB DAC and little-to-no improvement over the Arietta/Swing. I'm highly skeptical that the Opera is that much better, but I haven't heard it either.

I was totally turned off by any opamp-based amp after I got my Dynahi. Until I actually listened to Meier's stuff I totally wrote them off as another PPA. Now days I trust my own ears and do not based my decision solely on circuit schematics

[Beefy]

As I said, I listened to both the Arietta and Cantate, bought the Arietta, and much prefer the M3. Considering the Cantate is exactly the same design as the Opera, but the latter has an extra buffer stacked on each channel...... well that extra buffer would have to do some pretty magical things to my ears to make it sound good enough to justify the much higher price tag.

[Mycenius]

Guys - appreciate any ongoing input - just to update things - Am now looking at trialling Grado RS1's alongside the other phones (this will be in a couple of days) as no RS2's available locally at present. Will probably have to open the budget up to allow for that if I really like them and can't accept something lesser - so will also probably switch approach and try to pick cans first now, then match the amp to them - if I go upper range (like RS1's) may need to accept spending a bit more on the Amp... Oh dear, Megalomania sets in...

Also please note I source off CDs and some SACD & DVD-A primarily with reasonably good to high quality gear & cables - not MP3s and such off a computer or iPod or similar - All of these IME can make a big difference to how something sounds, before you even get to your amp and speakers or headphones.

I've also been told by headphone guy locally the Firestone CUTE Beyond amp is a very good match for the Grado sound colour - and can effectively be given a bit of an upgrade by replacing the external power supply... Considered a superior amp to the Cantate but lacks crossfeed function and obviously no integral DAC - am hoping to have 3 amps side by side initially for comparison (once I've identified which set of cans I probably prefer)...

[boomana]

I'm big on hearing before putting money down, but since it seems your choices are limited as you're wanting to hear before you buy, I'm not sure any suggestions we might make will make any difference to you. If I were you, I'd try out a few things, choose what you like best and be done with it.

BTW, I'm not a fan of crossfeed in headphone amps: unnecessary and gimmicky.