Moving to Monitors

[Aura]

I need something that I can move with relative ease yet still give me halfway decent sound, so I guess monitors are where it's at.

1) The room:

The red outlines the living room; there is no separation between it and the kitchen. Monitors will have brick in the rear facing towards regular wall paneling/drywall (or whatev).

2) The budget: roughly $2,000. The only thing I've got taken care of is the source. I would need to consider the monitors, possible amplification if passive, stands, and subwoofer/amplification for it.

3) The preferences: Bass is not vital, just looking for some sense of accuracy. Love midrange, that is probably priority. No particular taste for treble so long as it does not roll-off. Something fairly neutral would be nice, not too much coloration. I listen to a wide array of music, pretty much whatever I can get my hands on most of the time, but if any specifics are more important I would say acoustic guitar pieces (mainly instrumental) and some forms of progressive metal (Tool, Porcupine Tree).

Brands that have looked interesting:

- ProAC

- Paradigm

- Green Mountain (Europa primarily)

- Dynaudio

- Spendor

- Amphion (Ion)

- Quad

- PSB (Sherwood made an offer with his Platinum M2's, so I had to put this one down)

I'd put down Merlin and Harbeth if I could afford them, but I don't think it is possible at this point in time. Spendor intrigues me the most based on what I have briefly read.

Like I said, I'm sort of indifferent on bass, so a sub may not be necessary though I understand heavily recommended with a lot of monitors generally. Passive/active doesn't matter so long as I can fit either in my budget. Without a sub, I guess I figured the ideal spread would be $7-800 for the monitors and $1,000-1,200 for the amplification if passive. No preference on tubes or solid state for amplification so long as it gets out of the way as much as possible and drives the monitors effectively.

If you do have brand/model recommendations for the speakers please also list a synergistic amp as well; that would help me a great in terms of what sort of power/current level I am looking at needing depending on the monitors.

Thanks for any/all help, much appreciated.

[swt61]

That's an easy one for me. The Paradigm Signature S2 is nothing short of outstanding IMO. You'd have to spend a lot more money to upstage these monitors. They're on my wish list!

Oops sorry, I initially thought $2000.00 was your speaker budget. Never mind.

[Hopstretch]

I'd include the original Totem Model 1s, which go used for $600 - $700. Very winning sound in the Spendor/Harbeth end of the spectrum.

[LFF]

I have heard and loved the sound of Totem speakers. Great sound with the proper amplification. I hear you can clone them for relatively cheap too.

Also a big fan of the Amphion Ions. They sound great.

[Dusty Chalk]

JM Lab? (Note misspelling -- when searching, I tend to try all of: Focal, Jmlab, jm lab, jmlabs, jm labs.)

I haven't heard those specific speakers, but I'm a big fan of the company, they have stuff in pretty much every price bracket that's a darn good value (well, I wouldn't call the Utopia line "a good value", but...whatever). See also: Dali. And the Quad L & L2 lines. Also Dynaudio, and they have active speakers used for studio stuff.

I would try to get a local dealer so that you can hear them -- buying speakers is an extremely subjective and personal decision. Specifically, I loved my little Spendors, but they didn't go loud well. I don't usually listen loud, but for those few occasions when I do, I would like my speakers to be able to hold up (the Spendors got compressed and distorted -- really only good for nearfield listening, but that was this specific model).

[Guest sachu]

Please please put down Robertsacoustics Rapide on that list.

A very fine accuton driver (of the Kharma fame) speaker implementation.

To me this is probably the best Monitor out there in your price range. Sam Roberts could be persuaded to sell one for 2000$ instead of the 2399 list price if you are really interested.

Ignore the sub in the back.. (which is a very fine sub as well using probably thebest VFM driver out there, a Dayton RS 12 incher).

[jp11801]

I liked the amphion monitors I had a while back just a tad thin but great for the price. I really look at used System Audio SA2K speakers they are outstanding speakers. I also thought the JBL powered monitors that MikeG in Florida has are pretty good as well

[Asr]

Aura, you should probably sink some time into auditioning speakers first at local dealers, taking notes, and then re-reading online reviews to compare your personal experience. While monitors are easier to buy (and sell) than floorstanders, that doesn't mean one should spend zero time & effort to decrease the size of the net being casted. Also, if time is not of the essence, you should carefully consider your options and start keeping track of certain models on Audiogon frequently too - it'll give you an idea how frequently a certain model sells (if at all) and how much can be saved by buying used (and if it makes sense to buy used). Money can always be saved by buying used of course, but some manufacturers are very protective of their brand and limit their dealer network and in some cases even prohibit online sales.

I'd also add Aperion Audio and Monitor Audio to your list of brands.

Also fwiw, back when I first hoped to get into speakers, I was looking at floorstanders, but given the costs that would've been involved (and other changes that would've needed to be made to the listening environment that I can't presently do), I recently decided against it and will be going for monitors instead, for a similar reason as yours. Some side issues that came up for me (that I've now solved) that may or may not apply to you: (1) proportioning the level of "fi" between speaker & headphone systems, (2) integrating (or splitting) setup of the speaker system and the headphone system, (3) factoring physical space allowance & placement of speakers, and (4) additional expenses for speaker-specific accessories such as stands, cables, power conditioners, etc. And when it comes to speakers, you have to pick your specific models first, and then find the proper amp(s) to match. Btw: I'm running Monitor Audio's entry-level BR5 floorstanders with a Denon A/V receiver for my mini-HT; the speaker system I'll be assembling soon is for semi-nearfield listening.

[Aura]

Aura, you should probably sink some time into auditioning speakers first at local dealers, taking notes, and then re-reading online reviews to compare your personal experience. While monitors are easier to buy (and sell) than floorstanders, that doesn't mean one should spend zero time & effort to decrease the size of the net being casted. Also, if time is not of the essence, you should carefully consider your options and start keeping track of certain models on Audiogon frequently too - it'll give you an idea how frequently a certain model sells (if at all) and how much can be saved by buying used (and if it makes sense to buy used). Money can always be saved by buying used of course, but some manufacturers are very protective of their brand and limit their dealer network and in some cases even prohibit online sales.

I'd also add Aperion Audio and Monitor Audio to your list of brands.

Also fwiw, back when I first hoped to get into speakers, I was looking at floorstanders, but given the costs that would've been involved (and other changes that would've needed to be made to the listening environment that I can't presently do), I recently decided against it and will be going for monitors instead, for a similar reason as yours. Some side issues that came up for me (that I've now solved) that may or may not apply to you: (1) proportioning the level of "fi" between speaker & headphone systems, (2) integrating (or splitting) setup of the speaker system and the headphone system, (3) factoring physical space allowance & placement of speakers, and (4) additional expenses for speaker-specific accessories such as stands, cables, power conditioners, etc. And when it comes to speakers, you have to pick your specific models first, and then find the proper amp(s) to match. Btw: I'm running Monitor Audio's entry-level BR5 floorstanders with a Denon A/V receiver for my mini-HT; the speaker system I'll be assembling soon is for semi-nearfield listening.

Spot-on advice Steve. I am going to take my time with this purchase and try and audition at least a few of the options at dealers if possible. Keeping tabs on Audiogon makes a lot of sense and I will go through that process as well for getting a better sense of pricing.

As far as the issues go that you mentioned, I can say that almost assuredly these monitors will dominate my music listening, probably to the point that I will forgo keeping a reference pair of headphones/headphone amp. This happened with the Cicadas so I am expecting it again.

Space and placement shouldn't be a problem; as you can see the living room is a bit smaller, but not terribly small, so monitors should fit in quite nicely. It won't exactly be nearfield listening but it will be close, probably less than 8 feet from my head to the drivers. Working with the brick will be interesting as always .

Thanks very much for all the input so far guys; out of the suggestion I'd say Totem looks very very solid and I will be giving that one a lot of consideration. Any comments on solid-state amplification for the Model 1's?

There's a lot of badass-looking monitors out there...

[n_maher]

I know you say you're looking for monitors but why? Because you have to move them every once in a while? Moving monitors and stands will be every bit as much hassle as a single tower would be and I think in terms of bang for buck and good sound you might be limiting yourself arbitrarily. Given your budget there should be a ton of good choices for floor standers and well, you wouldn't have to worry about stands.

[jp11801]

also stands are extremely important with monitors crappy stands or poor placement will tank an otherwise good monitor.

Just saw Nate's post, if you come across a pair of Alon l's in your area JUMP on them. These speakers kept me satisfied for 15 years, they sell for peanuts on A-gon. Pairs can be had in decent shape for $500-700 and they sound better than their $3500 NOLA 1 brothers and as good as the NOLA 2's.

Edited September 9, 2009 by jp11801

[jinp6301]

What makes a bad stand by the way? Inadequate weight?

[n_maher]

I'm thinking about something like this, specifically for why I'd look at floor standers.

Paradigm Reference Studio 60 - eBay (item 230375319075 end time Sep-10-09 08:56:21 PDT)

I forgot to add to my previous post that my advice for any college student would be to make sure that whatever it is that you buy you don't mind getting a scuff or two, water ring or whatever. It's an apartment, shit happens, buy the good stuff later in life when there's at least a chance that you'll have better control over the environment.

and this is exactly what I have in my HT rig, they are very musical. I searched quite a while before deciding on them (8 years ago or so) and have never been disappointed.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PARADIGM-MONITOR-7-SPEAKERS-Vs-2-TOWERS_W0QQitemZ320421534021QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9a9c9945&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Edited September 9, 2009 by n_maher

[Dusty Chalk]

What makes a bad stand by the way? Inadequate weight?

The stands I have actually bounce.

[swt61]

What makes a bad stand by the way? Inadequate weight?

As well as inadequate coupling.

[Aura]

I know you say you're looking for monitors but why? Because you have to move them every once in a while? Moving monitors and stands will be every bit as much hassle as a single tower would be and I think in terms of bang for buck and good sound you might be limiting yourself arbitrarily. Given your budget there should be a ton of good choices for floor standers and well, you wouldn't have to worry about stands.

I've been moving the Moths back and forth probably 2-3 times a week on average. It's a small hassle, but a hassle nonetheless. I guess I am just finding something very appealing about monitors for the size.

I forgot to add to my previous post that my advice for any college student would be to make sure that whatever it is that you buy you don't mind getting a scuff or two, water ring or whatever. It's an apartment, shit happens, buy the good stuff later in life when there's at least a chance that you'll have better control over the environment.

Another reason I'm unloading the Moth gear. At times it doesn't even feel safe to have the stuff in here. With monitors I can keep them much better protected in the corner of my bedroom.

[Aura]

Oh, something I forgot to mention, I do have a Nakamichi AV-7 receiver that I could potentially use as my amp for now. This would allow me to push the budget for the speakers alone another $4-500, so Harbeth's may not be out of the question. I'd just be using not quite as solid amplification on them.

[falkon]

I think all your previous gear (Grados, horns) points to the fact that you would like Proac, Splendor, Triangle, Totem, Harbeth, maybe Tannoy. For the price, I'd choose Proac. For the best, I'd choose Harbeth.

[jinp6301]

Just go to the local hi-fi shop and try everything.

[postjack]

whenever I ask for monitor recommendations I got room treatment recommendations.

Today, if someone put a gun to my head and made me buy monitors, it would be the mini Harbeths, no doubt. I'd keep all my Quad electronics (99 Pre > 909).

that new radial driver looks badass, though I've never heard it:

out of your price range I guess. glad to be unhelpful! but I'd consider Nate's advice as well. Those $700 Paradigms look great. I have never heard them but have read plenty of positive reviews, and almost bought some myself a while back.

If you do a sub eventually, I can recommend the budget SVS, but keep in mind throwing this in your system will pretty much destroy the transportability aspect. The SVS subs are freaking heavy. I have the cylinder sub and it gets attention from everybody that comes into my house.

"Nice speakers. What is that? A sub? Thats a sub?!"

[The Monkey]

[The Monkey]

I'm also going to throw Vienna Acoustics into the mix for your consideration. I live mine.

AudiogoN ForSale: Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand

[Sherwood]

No votes for the PSB? I'll give you gentlemen the benefit of the doubt, and assume you've never heard them.

These are the most accurate monitors that Canada's NRC has ever turned out. They're made of honeycombed aluminum with a cherry veneer. They physically bolt to the custom stands in four places, and have a rounded bottom for further coupling with the stand (since they sit in it like a bowl).

They're a 2-way reverse D'Appolito (with the midrange above the tweeter), and the midrange is horn loaded for further bass extension. Moreover, the stands are designed to be filled with lead shot, as I have them, bringing the weight to roughly 70 lbs. per speaker.

These things are the bomb. Just thought y'all should know.

[melomaniac]

I second harbeth

[The Monkey]

No votes for the PSB? I'll give you gentlemen the benefit of the doubt, and assume you've never heard them.

I have read only good things.