QNAP NAS or Upgrade Custom Server?

[Edwood]

There's Microsoft's Robocopy. Similar to rsync although it does a better job with permissions.

Does it work with WIndows XP? Looks like it's only part of Vista or Server 2008.

[Nebby]

If you have windows xp, download the 2003 admin pack here:

Download details: Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools

then get the GUI for robocopy here:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/f/d/0/fd05def7-68a1-4f71-8546-25c359cc0842/HoffmanUtilitySpotlight2009_04.exe

(ref: Free Utility: RichCopy, an Advanced Alternative to RoboCopy )

If you don't have .NET 2.0 already installed, you can get that here:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en

That should set you up to play around a bit with robocopy. It worked quite well for my file server migration, let us know how it works out for you!

[Edwood]

Hmmm, neato. Microsoft released Robocopy GUI for friendlier operation.

Utility Spotlight: Robocopy GUI

[mirumu]

Yeah, it works on XP with the files Nebby linked to. I think it's actually included with Robocopy GUI and that one is a newer version than the one in the Resource Kit.

The things you saw about Vista and Server 2008 refer more to some enhancements to it they've made on more recent Windows versions. The main reason to favour a server OS would be when teaming Robocopy with Volume Shadow Copy to backup files that are currently in use. We've used it that way for a few server migrations of live fileshares/databases at work. We still do a final sync with all users disconnected at the last step, but it's very handy for minimizing the time the server needs to be down. VSC can be used with rsync too. That's how we do many of our backups at work.

[Edwood]

Since I'll have to reinstall the OS for the Server anyways, should I upgrade to Windows Server 2008?

Decent price here:

OEM Microsoft Windows Server 2008 5 CAL License No DVD-Best Computer Online Store Houston Buy Discount Prices Texas-Directron.com

Since it's a license and key code only, looks like I can download the Trial version from here and install it.

Windows Server 2008 Trial Software

Otherwise, I'd end up using a Windows XP Pro as a Ghetto server. (changing System Properties -> Advanced -> Performance -> Advanced -> Processor scheduling to "Background services")

5 User license should cover all of my needs.

How picky is Windows Server 2008 about drivers? Can I just use Regular Vista drivers for various hardware or are WinServer 2008 Specific drivers usually required? Just wondering if I can use just regular non-server oriented hardware (as in mobo's, video cards, etc.)

-Ed

[Nebby]

As long as the hardware has Vista drivers, you're good to go; as long as they're signed drivers you won't have any issues. With unsigned drivers you can get the 32 bit versions to work, but with the 64bit OS it doesn't IIRC.

mirumu: It's how we did our migration too; it's quite handy isn't it?

[mirumu]

I can't help much with Server 2008 questions unfortunately. We're still on server 2003. If you wanted something like Volume Shadow Copy then you ideally want Server 2003 R2 or newer, but otherwise XP is probably fine. As long as you're not hitting any disc size limitations that is. I think XP doesn't like NTFS discs larger than 2TB by default.

Nebby: Certainly saved us a lot of time. Taking down essential servers to copy entire RAID arrays is never popular with the users.

[Edwood]

Hmmm. Yeah. I'm going to have two arrays. One 800GB RAID10 and One 4TB RAID5.

I'm not an IT professional. Just an Industrial Designer / Graphic Artist with obsessive compulsive computer building habits.

One thing I'm trying to avoid is too much baby sitting. Would upgrading to Windows Server 2008 be More Work or Less Work than maintaining just a regular Vista or XP (optimized for background services).

I'm guessing the automated back up routines is what would set the dedicated Server OS's from Desktop OS's? I'm not running a database server, just a robust file/media server.

-Ed

[Nebby]

I have found that Server 08 is very good at maintaining itself. If you schedule defrags and enable windows update/set it to schedule update reboots for a specified time, it'll run just fine without much attention needed. I do recommend if you are running any sort of raid to enable some kind of notification when a drive fails

[mirumu]

Server operating systems tend to provide many things you probably won't use, but are good at maintaining themselves. For a simple file/media server you may not gain a lot.

I think your 4TB RAID5 partition will be too large for Windows XP though with it's 2TB limit.

Windows and GPT FAQ: Version 1.1

Windows server 2008 will allow drives up to 256TB using GPT. I'm not sure how Windows XP client PCs will handle a network share over 2TB though. Vista and Windows 7 clients will be fine.

[Edwood]

Oh, and it looks like Backblaze won't allow being used with a Server OS like Windows Server 2008 anyways.

Hmmm. I have quite a few Windows XP machines. So, I guess I'm going to have to partition that RAID 5 array into two 2TB Partitions?

-Ed

[mirumu]

You might get away with larger partitions if the host is running Vista or Windows 7, but yeah, I still don't know how XP clients would behave. Sticking to 2TB partitions should keep everything happy.

[Nebby]

Since the XP clients are accessing via SMB and not via the actual hardware they won't have any issues accessing the share. From my experience you might have some odd share size reporting issues (e.g. "3tb free of 933gb") but functionally there shouldn't be any issues. You can always be safe and stick with 2TB partitions though.

[Edwood]

I guess I'd be good with Vista for my Server OS. Only problem is how bloated Vista is. I was going to install the OS on a spare Samsung SLC 16GB SSD I have laying around.

-Ed

[Nebby]

You can always use vLite to trim down the nonessentials for Vista. SSD for OS is great, I plan on migrating most my my computers to SSD's in the future.

[Edwood]

Funny you should mention vLite. I'm currently using it to slipstream SP1 into Vista install right now. Man, it takes a long time.

Yeah, I love love love SSD's. I have them on 3 computers now. One desktop client (my 24/7 Bittorrnt'n machine), and in two of my laptops.

-Ed

[Edwood]

For vLite, which of the following features should I keep? Some are obvious to keep like File and Printer Sharing, but others I'm not so sure. Obviously, Aero Glass must go.

_ Aero Glass

_File and printer sharing (Server)

_Internet Explorer (Internet Explorer, Microsoft HTML Engine)

_Internet Information Sharing (IIS) (IIS, Windows Firewall, Internet Connection Sharing, Performance Counters, MDAC)

_Recommended (MS HTML engine, Application Experience, SuperFetch, ReadyBoost, TCP/IP NetBios Helper, Network Explorer, Game Explorer, Multimedia Class Scheduler)

_Scanners and Cameras

_System Restore (Task Scheduler, Volume Shadow Copy, System Restore)

_Windows Fax and Scan (Windows Mail, Fax Support, Windows Image Acquisition)

_Windows Update (Windows Update, Background Intelligent Transfer Service, Component Cache (winsxs), Quality of Service(QoS), IPsec Policy Agent)

And then under "Applications" the only one I can see needing is:

_DriveimageXML Dynamic Volume Manager

[Nebby]

The applicable items that I can see are below; don't think you'll need the others.

_X_ File and printer sharing (Server)

Won't be able to do file serving without this service

_Internet Information Sharing (IIS) (IIS, Windows Firewall, Internet Connection Sharing, Performance Counters, MDAC)

Only if you plan on using your server to share web pages, and even then IIS is connection limited (I think) on vista.

_System Restore (Task Scheduler, Volume Shadow Copy, System Restore)

From an admin standpoint those are useful, but I'm not sure you'll use them much as a simple file server except for System Restore in the event of a crash after patch. You may want VSS if you use previous versions, if not then don't bother.

_X_Windows Update (Windows Update, Background Intelligent Transfer Service, Component Cache (winsxs), Quality of Service(QoS), IPsec Policy Agent)

Definite yes on this one, otherwise you'll do much more babysitting with the patching than you probably want.

And then under "Applications" the only one I can see needing is:

_DriveimageXML Dynamic Volume Manager

Not quite sure what that is myself, I'll defer to others for this one.

[mirumu]

Not quite sure what that is myself, I'll defer to others for this one.

I don't know why it's under "Applications" as I'd have thought it would have been a management console plug-in. I believe the purpose of it is to look after volumes composed of multiple partitions. The partitions can be on the same disc, but don't have to be. Once you convert a disc to be dynamic you can group partitions into large volumes or in various forms of software RAID. Drives configured that way tend to be rather slow, but if hardware RAID isn't an option the redundancy it offers can be useful. There's probably little reason to turn it off.

[Nebby]

Ah...I got thrown off by the DriveimageXML name, didn't read the "dynamic volume" part :facepalm:

[Edwood]

OK, my newly upgraded server is up and running finally.

I managed to get Vista Business down to around 6GB after drivers installed. Absolute barebones with vLite. Rain into all sorts of Hardware and Software issues. Was a PITA to get it to recognize my old 3Ware 7410 card.

Am currently formatting the 3.7TB Array. Going to take quite awhile.

Here's the current specs:

DFI 855GME-MGF Motherboard

Intel Pentium M 765 @2.1GHz

1GB ECC DDR SDRAM

Ass Loads of Temperature Controlled Fans

Samsung 16GB 1.8" SLC SSD (vLite Vista Business) with 3.5" IDE Adapter

Patriot Convoy Dual Drive Holders with 2x 40GB 2.5" Samsungs in RAID 1 (Win2K Back Up OS)

3Ware 7410 with 4x 400GB Seagates in RAID 10

3Ware / AMCC 9550SX with 3x 2TB Seagates in RAID 5

1x 1TB Seagate Back Up drive (eSATA) for 7410 Array

1x 2TB Seagate Back Up drive (SATA) for 9550SX Array

16GB 1.8" Samsung SSD drive is mounted on the side of the drive cage area with stand offs. The 4x 400GB IDE Seagates are at the bottom. The Hot swap enclosure has 3x 2TB Seagates in RAID 5, the 4th drive (the red SATA cable) is the single 2TB Drive that's the Back up drive.

I really am not going to miss IDE cables. Ridiculous Cablegami action to fit so many IDE cables in a tight spot. It didn't help that the 64Bit PCI-X slot was in the middle and 3Ware 9550SX card needed it, while the 3Ware 7410 could only fit in the top PCI slot, because the bottom one has the CMOS battery blocking the bottom of the slot.

Just for shits and giggles, here's a pic of the very first version of my Server. The 3Ware 7410 and two 400GB Seagates from this original build are still being used today.

-Ed

[Edwood]

Wow, format process is at 3% now. Holy shit. I was thinking of TrueCrypting the entire array, that might take a month.

[Edwood]

Format process is at 12% now. Fucking wow it's slow.

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm in your server, stealing your bandwidths.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Wow, that is amazingly slow! How's the noise level on that box? Thank god for a closet, eh?