What are you driving your K1000 with?

[swt61]

Several of us own them, and there seem to be many differing opinions on amplification.

So I thought it might be fun to see what people are using.

Post about current or previously owned K1K systems you like.

ATM I'm driving mine with an Opera Audio a120 integrated. That's really the only amp I've used thus far, but the plan has always been to use the Beta22 once it's finished with repair and recase.

Even though I've little to compare it to, the Opera is a quality unit.

I've heard that a good 300B amp is a fantastic mate for the K1K, but I doubt I'd ever spend that kind of cash.

So what are your favorites?

[foo_me]

My amp experience:

Zanden 300b (current)...stopped looking after hearing it together.

Air Tight 300b...demoed at local audio shop. maybe just as good as Zanden but can't say.

Moth 300b...prefer Zanden, but pretty close

Woo Audio 5...prefer Zanden, but also pretty close

B22...good, but strongly prefer 300b amps over it. Under meet conditions.

Singlepower Extreme...owned it for a time. Just OK. somewhat harsh and couldn't drive it properly.

Balancing Act...TBD, waiting to find a 1/4in adapter to test.

[Dusty Chalk]

Best I've ever owned was A3^CR pre/power combo. I have yet to try the Manley Stingray. Only other amp I tried it with that I've owned was the Jolida JD102B, which was meh -- wasn't bad, but wasn't good. Ditto AudioValve RKV w/Impedanzer. No, wait, I also tried it with the Kenwood microsystem, wasn't bad. My mom loved it, but I wasn't willing to part with the Kenwood when I gave her the K1000's.

Best I've ever heard was Canman's Pass Labs -based rig. Also heard very very good sound out of tuberolled ASL MG Head (!) and Singlepower ... PPX, I think? Might've been MPX. You'd have to ask Hirsch. Whichever one he has. It's all in the tubes -- if you get the right tubes, that changes everything.

[Duggeh]

NAD C352. Sometimes a Quad 405-2. I'm reserving ultimate judgement on them for the day when I hear them out of something much meatier but atm, they're just plain not as good as the O2 or the H2.

[Fitz]

Currently using the Total Eclipse, which they sound wonderful out of, but will be supplanted by the Beta22 once I finish it.

[swt61]

Best I've ever heard was Canman's Pass Labs -based rig.

Yeah, I have a working DIY Pass F5 up at Marc's place. I've yet to hear it, but I need to get up there and bring it home to try at some point. I do expect that to be a step up from the Opera, especially now that I have the Luminous Audio passive preamps.

I bet the 300B is lovely, but that's in the $5000.00 range, yes?

Taking my current K1K rig over to a friends house in about 45 minutes. He is a non audiophile, but he has listened to some of my gear for a few minutes here and there. Never the K1K yet though.

Edited August 29, 2009 by swt61

[jp11801]

First watt F1with an eastern electric pre amp really good

THe Zanden, Moth and Woo are all great choices with the nod to the Zanden for absolute sq but the nod to the Moth for dollar to sq value

I do want to listen to a k1000 driven by the Dared 845 amp just for kicks

2a3 Moth did not have enough juice to power them and I am not sure the BA will have the drive to power them either but I hope it does.

The RWA Sig 30 was ok, great neat package solution but a few steps behind the First Watt or 300b amps

[Voltron]

My amp experience:

Zanden 300b (current)...stopped looking after hearing it together.

Air Tight 300b...demoed at local audio shop. maybe just as good as Zanden but can't say.

Moth 300b...prefer Zanden, but pretty close

Woo Audio 5...prefer Zanden, but also pretty close

B22...good, but strongly prefer 300b amps over it. Under meet conditions.

Singlepower Extreme...owned it for a time. Just OK. somewhat harsh and couldn't drive it properly.

Balancing Act...TBD, waiting to find a 1/4in adapter to test.

I use my Moth 300B Paradigm, which cost me $1500 plus $500 for Western Electric tubes, and the only one I have heard and liked better is Min's Zanden 300B amp. I was looking forward to hearing the SDS-XLR with the K1Ks when my amp died, and I intend to try it out soon now that ironbut resurrected it.

The TTVJ/Millett 307A sounds great with K1Ks.

I also agree with Min on the WA5 being a good option and the Extreme not being a good option, but I have yet to hear the AirTight. Dussun integrated amps drive them pretty well, but not at all like the 300Bs I have heard.

[aardvark baguette]

I always wanted to try K1000 with this

[Voltron]

I always wanted to try K1000 with this

Not that great actually. Other EAR gear is better at shat it does.

[Looser101]

SRM-252

Actually, Primaluna Prologue 1.

Best I heard, McAlister Custom K1000 amp.

[Icarium]

Really? Fear the Mcalister stuff though ;p Was it a good design? Or is it unexplainable magic?

[Looser101]

Really? Fear the Mcalister stuff though ;p Was it a good design? Or is it unexplainable magic?

No magic. Ok, maybe a little. If you consider SE goodness to be magic. And killer bass.

[Sherwood]

I drive mine out of a Peachtree Nova currently, which seemed awesome until I heard the K1K througha Cary 300sei.

I should take receipt of an F1 clone here in the next week, which should be a clear step up.

Also a Trends TA 10.1, which was excellent in many ways, and better than the Nova's amp section without a doubt.

[xand1x]

Hmmm its been an interesting journey with the K1000.

One thing i'd like to say is that the First Watt F1 is not a great match for the K1000. I had it for years and believed it was until I heard some other amps. Oddly enough my old $200 Hafler P1000 outperformed it in every area. The Ram Audio BUX 2.0 and K1000 is the best combo i've heard bar none but a little over my budget. I have a Dynahi coming in with Sigma 22 power supply & gain of 11..hopefully that's enough to get some magic out of them.

I have never heard a top tier tube amp with the K1000 but have used a tube preamp (Eastern Electric Minimax) with the First Watt F1 and heard a few others. I generally prefer SS with the K1000 personally but there may be a tube amp out there to sway me..who knows

[luvdunhill]

No surprise to me the F1 isn't a great match, given its designed use.

I do still think the F5 will absolutely blow the beta22 out of the water though

[Sherwood]

No surprise to me the F1 isn't a great match, given its designed use.

It is something of a surprise to me. It was designed to drive efficient, crossoverless loudspeakers that would be "overdamped" with an amp of low output impedance, no? I'm hardly qualified to speak in this area, but the K1000 seems like exactly that.

[swt61]

No surprise to me the F1 isn't a great match, given its designed use.

I do still think the F5 will absolutely blow the beta22 out of the water though

Well you may very well be right. I'll put it through it's paces at some point. I need to finish the faceplate flanges.

[luvdunhill]

It is something of a surprise to me. It was designed to drive efficient, crossoverless loudspeakers that would be "overdamped" with an amp of low output impedance, no? I'm hardly qualified to speak in this area, but the K1000 seems like exactly that.

From the manual:

"This is a very unusual amplifier that will not sound good with about 98% of the loudspeakers on the market. It requires careful attention to

loudspeaker loading to get the best performance."

This "loading" parameter is the key here and the one forgotten by those who pair it with the K1000. Remember, the the F1 is a transconductance amplifier. If you can imagine, the amp was pretty much designed to handle Lowther and Fostex drivers. If you look carefully at their offerings, you see nothing that resembles the impedance and sensitivity of the K1000 drivers.

I suppose my logic isn't all that direct, but this is the basis of why I think it wouldn't work so well...

[xand1x]

It is something of a surprise to me. It was designed to drive efficient, crossoverless loudspeakers that would be "overdamped" with an amp of low output impedance, no? I'm hardly qualified to speak in this area, but the K1000 seems like exactly that.

Yeah I thought so as well from a technical point of view. I heard differently though. I mean the sound isn't BAD it does sound pretty good. It's just that when you hear something that is clearly better you realize its not a good match. I guess this can hold in an infinite amount of cases but I was in a state of shock when a $200 pro amp out performed it. YMMV!

[mopps]

- A DECADE AGO: Musical Fidelity A1 with Selector (2 x 20 watts Class A; smooth, very "musical", but bit too laid-back)

- AFTERWARDS: NAD C162/C272 (some megawatts; clinical, sharp sound; a nightmare with my loudspeakers, too)

- NOW: HeadRoom Max Balanced (good synergy with its warm, dark, "audiophile" sound; but not enough power/control; BTW: has s/o the specs?)

- SOON: CEC HD53N (balanced hp/ls amp with "LEF" and 4w/32Ω (18w/4Ω); hopefully a great match; will know it next week (comes with DAC DA53N))

[Sherwood]

This "loading" parameter is the key here and the one forgotten by those who pair it with the K1000. Remember, the the F1 is a transconductance amplifier. If you can imagine, the amp was pretty much designed to handle Lowther and Fostex drivers. If you look carefully at their offerings, you see nothing that resembles the impedance and sensitivity of the K1000 drivers.

The impedance I get -- every Lowther driver I know is is a nominal 8 ohms, which is a far cry from the K1000s 120 ohms. Sensitivity I'm unsure of, since I'm not certain how to adjust the K1000s stated sensitivity of 74 d/mW into a more standard dB/1 watt at 1 meter sensitivity rating. The lowthers (and, to a lesser degree, the Fostex) all hover in the neighborhood of 100 dB/w.

I definitely see what you're getting at, Marc, and I get that the F1 is an immensely esoteric amplifier. Nonetheless, I'm excited to give it a go-round on my K1000s

[milezone]

On the topic of the F1, it may not statistically be the best amp for the K1000's. However comparing a ~4.5 cm headphone driver to an 8 inch driver and ultimately trying to make the case that 10watts isn't sufficient to drive the k1000's is ridiculous. The output impedance of the F1 is 80ohms. In a perfect would it would be 120. The phase mismatch is fairly insignificant. While the sensitivity is more important one can't forget that despite its 74dB/w rating, it's still a headphone, and an extremely nimble one at that.

While the K1000's have a 74 dB/w rating, we cant forget, they're still headphones.

In defense of the F1 it does certain things that most other amps aren't nearly capable of. Realism being the number one trait. Inherent to its simple design, the F1 practically eliminates the noise floor. The result is a presentation of sound which appears into space and disappears back into space effortlessly. While the Ram Audio BUX 2.0 which haven't heard (or heard of prior to this thread) likely controls the drivers better (hard to imagine) and may excel in other areas, its complex circuit makes this quality of the low noise floor impossible (not to be confused with a black background). The effect of this, in my best estimation, is a loss of this sense of effortlessness. The tradeoff -- stronger dynamics. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[cetoole]

You are wrong.

WTF does a simple circuit topology have to do with noise floor? Not saying the F1 is lacking in that regard, but PSRR is not dependent on how simple the circuit is, but rather on the particular topology used. Power supplies also matter for this, and it is certainly possible to have an amplifier with crappy PSRR be extremely quiet simply by taking care of the power supply.

On the issue of the F1's output impedance, it is meant to act as a current source for speakers. When used into an 8ohm load, the F1's output impedance is dramatically higher than that of the speaker, so it actually does a pretty fair approximation of a current source, but into the k1000, it is just a voltage source with shitty damping factor.

[milezone]

Fitting name for your company.

It's very simple:

Less circuitry means less effort to get the original information in its most accurate state. This translates to clarity, or accurate reproduction from the source. As a circuit becomes complicated more signal information is lost. As the less dynamic frequencies are lost the signal becomes compressed. For the listener, this is experientially the sensation of congestion. And if I had to guess, Ram Audio isn't high grade parts to compensate for this problem. Instead it seems they took the more power and we can retain some of the information approach.

Second, the "shitty" damping factor doesn't matter in this instance since again we are talking about tiny very drivers which despite their low sensitivity, are more nimble than Lowthers, Fostexs and the rest when amped equally. In other words, what you said is totally irrelevant. Give it a shot and see for yourself.