Possible Employer: Liberty National Insurance. Thoughts?

[MexicanDragon]

Here's the deal:

Many of you know I've been looking for work for a good while. This company (Liberty National Insurance) has been recruiting in my area, and the spiel is enticing. Follow the plan, do the legwork, work hard, get well compensated. I've read pros and cons about this place (not unlike many/most places out there), and it's obvious some people can't hack it, and some don't get good trainers, and it just doesn't work for everyone, and that's fine. I'm just trying to figure out if anyone has any first/second-hand knowledge of the firm, and those thoughts.

Seems you have to be a licensed insurance agent, and I got all the info on where to do the online coursework for that and whatnot. I was told if I got it done in two weeks (seems like 3 or so is the norm, but 2 shouldn't be a problem for me if I decide to do it, I have the time/abilities to knock it out quick), that I would be fully reimbursed for every dime spent.

The parent company is Torchmark Corp (NYSE: TMK), if anyone knows about that.

I half-way get the Quixtar/Amway feel with the presentation, but I went in for the follow-up today and wound up chatting it up with the interviewer instead of really getting to what needed to be talked about. The person who had an appointment in front me me was late, making my interview run 20 minutes late (he was also late to the first group presentation.) The interviewer (a "Unit Manager" and former VP of the company, who dropped down from corporate to be there to raise his young son instead of seeing him on the weekends only, which I totally get) had to cut it short due to having a meeting with the Mayor. I understood. He gave me the info on what testing to do at this point and said he would sponsor me if I get it done. I figure that's KINDA a soft job offer... or at least a shot.

This is a commission/bonus-only pay structured job, and I've never been in that situation before. I dig the stability of knowing how much I'm going to get paid if I work X hours, however, it's almost always been a "check to check" lifestyle, and I'm sick of it.

There's an open house for a job I'm really intersted in tomorrow morning and I'm hitting that after I drop off the kids at school/daycare, I'm just really wanting to get started on this coursework if I decide to do it or not.

Any thoughts on this company, either from the employee or policy holder side, would be greatly appreciated.

**BRENT**

[grawk]

Google the company, find out everything you can. Some good companies and good jobs are commission only, but the quick "I'll help you" and "off to meet the mayor" etc have a bad vibe for me. My wiife used to be support staff at an MLM and those people give me the willies.

[MexicanDragon]

Been Googling, but getting the mixed reports. The guy is an AMAZING salesman, though... He is one of the few people I've come across who could keep my attention for over 95% of a presentation (that was 90 minutes long). Maybe I should e-mail the mayor's office and see if he had a noon meeting with this guy yesterday?

Thanks for the thoughts, dan. This is just an extension of my independent searching of the company. I'm getting a bad vibe as in "it's almost too good to be true", but it's in the back of my mind "what if it actually is this good?"

I know this company has been around since 1900, with a major growth spurt in 1929 during the Great Depression. I am just nearing the desperation stage again... if I try this and it blows up in my face, family suffers. I try it an succeed, well, I'll buy everyone a round of bourbon/scotch/virgin pina colada (for Vicki).

**BRENT**

[n_maher]

I had a friend who worked for a similar company his first 4+ years out of school. The essential bottom line is that you have to be semi-morally flexible and go at it with the realization that they don't really give a shit how you do since they only pay you when you make them money. The work is brutal (selling life insurance to people who generally cannot afford it or would ever think to buy it) and burnout is fast for most people. Even when you get to the lower level management side of things you are still working insane hours with little guarantee of a steady paycheck.

Honestly Brent, my first inclination is to say "it's a job, take it" but knowing what my friend Gus went through with what I think is a similar company or at least similar setup leads me to think that it's a less than good idea. I wish I could be more encouraging.

[MexicanDragon]

It's fine, Nate. I know we've all heard stories about this place. I naturally want to reply "but this feels different", but really, it's obvious the guy is good at getting people in the door. He's said the things that I personally wanted to hear, and very little I didn't want to hear or didn't expect. This guy is one of the top performers in the company (supposedly, but I can see it), so it's making me want to come across as "under this guy's mentoring, I think the job would be doable, and I think I could be successful", but back of the mind is thinking "commission only, scary, where's the stability, blah blah blah". I've been looking at this a week going back and forth... I'm hoping to find that definitive "this is an amazing company and I think personally would be great at the job and be successful". I just haven't found that... yet.

I'm planning on keeping digging, I just really hope to find what I'm looking for. If I don't, so be it.

Thanks.

**BRENT**

[grawk]

commission only is better than no income, and they probably dont' let people go. So it's all on you. Scary, but good.

[VPI]

I would avoid them Brent. They are a Torchmark group and they will eventually ask you to pay for classes and then tell you that they are very impressed and want to sell you a list of their best clients. You will then be out of pocket for phone, gas etc. trying to sell to people on the list who in rare occasions might be looking for insurance.

We have been involved with investigations of these outfits and you are better off making minimum wage as you will most likely lose money with that outfit.

Chattanooga seems to be a miserable place for job hunting as my cousin there has been looking for a year.

[Augsburger]

Hi Brent,

I am not sure from your description and that may be because you are not sure yourself since not a lot of detail was forthcoming from the interview, but it appears the position you were interviewing for is a licensed insurance agent. I pulled up the annual report and 10K of Liberty National Insurance and did a little research on their financial status. As a life insurance company they are a small player and depending on their investment portfolio may survive the next two years. So if you really do want to be a life insurance agent bear in mind that you will be with a small player in an industry that may be entering a period of great volatility.

If you really believe a career as a full time life insurance agent is for you and that is a career you really want, you might wish to bear in mind that life insurance agents make money by selling people life insurance products, whether the prospect needs insurance products or not. The life insurance industry will tell you that everyone needs life insurance or an annuity, and to some degree that is true but when a salesman's livelihood comes from commissions often times ethics are compromised. To be a successful beginning life insurance agent or stock broker most will need to have a bribe able conscience, that is how they can survive the first five years of being in the business. Remember, the guy that is talking to you is a recruiter who will probably get a piece of all the business you bring in so he really has nothing to lose. The guy's job is to bring in a bunch of agents, slam them against the wall and make money off of those who stick.

Good luck Brent.

Greg

[MexicanDragon]

I would avoid them Brent. They are a Torchmark group and they will eventually ask you to pay for classes and then tell you that they are very impressed and want to sell you a list of their best clients. ...

We have been involved with investigations of these outfits and you are better off making minimum wage as you will most likely lose money with that outfit.

Chattanooga seems to be a miserable place for job hunting as my cousin there has been looking for a year.

*Sigh* Going backwards, yes, Chattanooga is seemingly a miserable place for job hunting, at least at much of the things I'm qualified for/can test well for. I definitely see the possiblity of losing $$$, and it seems many have. I know straight out of the gate (well, at the end of the interview today) it was thrown around about having up to a couple hundred for licensing come out of my pocket upfront, though were I to get through it in the next two weeks it would be fully reimbursed, though that was not in writing. Thanks for the thoughts, Jeff. Tell your cousin T-Mobile call center is hiring... I'm hittting up their open house in the morning

Hi Brent,

I am not sure from your description and that may be because you are not sure yourself since not a lot of detail was forthcoming from the interview, but it appears the position you were interviewing for is a licensed insurance agent. I pulled up the annual report and 10K of Liberty National Insurance and did a little research on their financial status. As a life insurance company they are a small player and depending on their investment portfolio may survive the next two years. So if you really do want to be a life insurance agent bear in mind that you will be with a small player in an industry that may be entering a period of great volatility.

If you really believe a career as a full time life insurance agent is for you and that is a career you really want, you might wish to bear in mind that life insurance agents make money by selling people life insurance products, whether the prospect needs insurance products or not. The life insurance industry will tell you that everyone needs life insurance or an annuity, and to some degree that is true but when a salesman's livelihood comes from commissions often times ethics are compromised. To be a successful beginning life insurance agent or stock broker most will need to have a bribe able conscience, that is how they can survive the first five years of being in the business. Remember, the guy that is talking to you is a recruiter who will probably get a piece of all the business you bring in so he really has nothing to lose. The guy's job is to bring in a bunch of agents, slam them against the wall and make money off of those who stick.

Good luck Brent.

Greg

Hi Greg,

I appreciate you pulling up some extra info. My internet situation is kinda keeping me from digging as far as I want to (tethered through partial PDAnet program... it's limited as to what I can do). As far as being a life insurance agent, it's never really even entered my mind before a couple weeks ago as I was just looking through job sites at things I would possibly be good at. I applied and was surprised to get a call. The moral flexibility thing, well, I'm pretty sure even though my morals may be a little skewed from "ideal", I still have what I believe to be a fairly ethical set at my core.

Yes, before I forget, you were right. They are looking for sales reps/agents. They are looking to hire ~50 over 4 branches locally in a town of ~155k and a county of ~360k. They say the goal is to hit up 240 contacts/wk to set up 24 appointments. 50 reps x 240 contacts x 52 weeks... By my math you're looking at hitting up, just as new hires, everyone in the county at the 7 month mark... man, woman and child. Doesn't really compute... especially with, as you pointed out, a minor player.

I'd be really interested to see how this guy handles other interviews. It was actually supposed to be his wife (the branch owner/manager) do interviews, but he did it as she had to prep for a large recruiting event tomorrow.

I'm definitely torn... and I'm not liking this feeling at all. There is a good bit at stake over the next few months dealing with medium to long term consequences of actions I take in the near future, and it impacts not just me, but my family. Really not a fan of such decisions.

Thanks for the thoughts guys... about to head to bed... another day of job hunting tomorrow.

**BRENT**

[Augsburger]

*Sigh* Going backwards, yes, Chattanooga is seemingly a miserable place for job hunting, at least at much of the things I'm qualified for/can test well for. I definitely see the possibility of losing $$$, and it seems many have. I know straight out of the gate (well, at the end of the interview today) it was thrown around about having up to a couple hundred for licensing come out of my pocket upfront, though were I to get through it in the next two weeks it would be fully reimbursed, though that was not in writing. Thanks for the thoughts, Jeff. Tell your cousin T-Mobile call center is hiring... I'm hittting up their open house in the morning

Hi Greg,

I appreciate you pulling up some extra info. My internet situation is kinda keeping me from digging as far as I want to (tethered through partial PDAnet program... it's limited as to what I can do). As far as being a life insurance agent, it's never really even entered my mind before a couple weeks ago as I was just looking through job sites at things I would possibly be good at. I applied and was surprised to get a call. The moral flexibility thing, well, I'm pretty sure even though my morals may be a little skewed from "ideal", I still have what I believe to be a fairly ethical set at my core.

Yes, before I forget, you were right. They are looking for sales reps/agents. They are looking to hire ~50 over 4 branches locally in a town of ~155k and a county of ~360k. They say the goal is to hit up 240 contacts/wk to set up 24 appointments. 50 reps x 240 contacts x 52 weeks... By my math you're looking at hitting up, just as new hires, everyone in the county at the 7 month mark... man, woman and child. Doesn't really compute... especially with, as you pointed out, a minor player.

I'd be really interested to see how this guy handles other interviews. It was actually supposed to be his wife (the branch owner/manager) do interviews, but he did it as she had to prep for a large recruiting event tomorrow.

I'm definitely torn... and I'm not liking this feeling at all. There is a good bit at stake over the next few months dealing with medium to long term consequences of actions I take in the near future, and it impacts not just me, but my family. Really not a fan of such decisions.

Thanks for the thoughts guys... about to head to bed... another day of job hunting tomorrow.

**BRENT**

One last thought or two. Two hundred and forty contacts/cold calls for 24 appointments per week is a very optimistic forecast. More like 100 cold calls per appointment or two. Also, 24 appointments per week is a brutal pace especially if you have a family. Almost half of those appointments will be made in the evening when the contact is off work and when you factor in traveling time it will mean very long days. One other thing they never discuss with you is the lag time involved to receiving your commission. For example, say you meet a prospect on Monday and that contact buys an insurance policy completing the paperwork that day. Next you then need to submit the paperwork which will take four to eight weeks for approval then one week after that to deliver the contract and collect payment. Once you send in the signed contract delivery paperwork with a check from the client it will take approximately two more weeks to receive your check. So in reality it takes seven to eleven weeks to receive payment for work you completed all the while paying out of pocket for gas and work expenses.

[Aimless1]

I've been a licensed life insurance agent since I was 18 yr old. Now I'm just old

The life insurance companies that are generally considered reputable and financially stable tend to recruit agents for 2 year training programs and support the new agent financially until the end of the training period. Might be a draw against commission or a base salary + commission, but supported financially none the less.

There are other companies that behave more like an MLM. I'm not familiar with this particular company. However, most of what you've relayed has "WARNING" written all over it. Please proceed carefully. You are more likely to make money selling Cutco knives.

All of us are faced with moral and ethical situations no matter what we do. Obviously it is an individual test of character how you respond to those situations. If this has piqued an interest in insurance then many options for a career are available....agent (life, property and casualty), underwriter, acturary, marketing, IT & etc.

Good luck!

[Genetic]

Here's the deal:

(...)

Seems you have to be a licensed insurance agent, and I got all the info on where to do the online coursework for that and whatnot. I was told if I got it done in two weeks (seems like 3 or so is the norm, but 2 shouldn't be a problem for me if I decide to do it, I have the time/abilities to knock it out quick), that I would be fully reimbursed for every dime spent.

**BRENT**

I have yet to see a line of work that is worthy of investing someone life and that needs less time in formation than what it needs to become a below average male stripper....

Amicalement

[LFF]

I had an older girlfriend who worked for a life insurance company for 5 years before she got burned out by the work and the ethics involved. She then switched over to car insurance working for a big company. She said she enjoyed that far more and has kept that job for the past 20 some odd years.

Knowing some lawyers, I also know that getting some insurance companies to pay on life insurance is very, very hard.

Honestly, I'd say to stay away.

[Absorbine_Sr]

I've been a licensed life insurance agent since I was 18 yr old. Now I'm just old

The life insurance companies that are generally considered reputable and financially stable tend to recruit agents for 2 year training programs and support the new agent financially until the end of the training period. Might be a draw against commission or a base salary + commission, but supported financially none the less.

There are other companies that behave more like an MLM. I'm not familiar with this particular company. However, most of what you've relayed has "WARNING" written all over it. Please proceed carefully. You are more likely to make money selling Cutco knives.

All of us are faced with moral and ethical situations no matter what we do. Obviously it is an individual test of character how you respond to those situations. If this has piqued an interest in insurance then many options for a career are available....agent (life, property and casualty), underwriter, acturary, marketing, IT & etc.

Good luck!

What he said. I worked for a major insurance company many years ago. During the training phase I was not dependent on commision but was paid a salary. I went through the training and did not have to pay money up front. I worked there for a little over 1 year, but as someone else mentioned, I had a problem with some of the tactics they taught you to use. This may not have been endorsed by the company itself, but by older salesmen there. But the comapany seemed happy to turn a blind eye. I never could get my head around some of these methods. My favorite was when trying to sell a husband life insurance, make sure the wife is there too. That way, if he turns it down, you can turn to her and say "well, if he really loved you, he would not turn this down." Pretty cold.

But they are not all like this and times have changed to. If the career interests you, search out some of the better companies. Don't fall for the good salesman.