Home Theater Pre Pro Recommendations?

[Edwood]

Well, my Harmon Kardon AVR 85 is giving up the ghost faster than I had hoped.

Since I have the Smyth Research Realiser and plan to use that inline with pre outs from a surround processor to speaker amps (not for awhile, may end up with active monitors mainly in the future), I am focusing on separates now. No need for amp(s) yet, just the front end processing.

HDMI switching is not a priority for me at all, since my TV has 4 HDMI inputs, and I'm only using one right now. So, I have plenty of room for expansion.

I also plan on eventually giving in and getting an Oppo BDP-83, which from what I hear has excellent onboard decoding of lossless high res audio (DD True HD and DTS Master Audio), so I guess that opens up the door for older and used Pre Pros with a excellent analog pass through for 7.1 audio.

I've been eyeing the upcoming Emotiva UMC-1, but since the only DD True HD and DTS MA I'm going to upgrade to in the forseeable future is the Oppo BDP-83, I'm considering getting the older DMC-1 instead. I'm wondering if the DMC-1 will still sound better than the UMC-1 with older codecs like DD, DTS, DD+, etc.

The vast majority of my content will be older Dolby Digital and DTS, so from a digital standpoint, I'm thinking older, higher end Pre Pros might be a better buy, than a newer, cheaper Pre Pro with more bells and whistles, but not as good analog output stage.

I'd like to keep my budget limit at $1000, preferrably closer to $500 or less even with used Pre Pros.

-Ed

[grawk]

I'd think you'd be better off with a modern receiver rather than a few year old pre/pro at the $500-1000 price point.

[tkam]

I'm with Dan on this one, try to find an Onkyo or Denon in your price range they'll easily have all the features you need and then some.

[Edwood]

So which Onkyo or Denon would you recommend over the Emotiva DMC-1?

If it has integrated amp in it, I'd like to be able to disable the speakers easily with the push of a button or switch. The main reason I wanted a Pre Pro is to be able to put my Realiser inline because it automatically mutes the speakers (signal to amp) when in use, and has a pure analog bypass (relay switch) when the Realiser is not in use.

Also, a receiver usually gets hotter and uses more power than a Pre Pro, as I wouldn't have use of the Amp section the vast majority of the time.

-Ed

[DigiPete]

A little overkill but a kick ass receiver with the latest HDMI and hi-def decoding

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?homeproc&1254837919&/denon-3808ci-with-FPU

$600 at this price it won't last long

I have this one in my home theater rig and am totally satisfied

[Edwood]

Would the Denon AVR-3808ci sound better than the Emotiva DMC-1 with older formats like DD, DTS, DD+, etc? Especially considering it costs 50% more than a used DMC-1.

Is there an easy way to shut all the speakers off via a front panel button and/or remote control, and only have the Pre Outs working? (remember, I want to use this with the Smyth Realiser primarily). That would make the Denon appealing for me, as I wouldn't have to get a separate amp in the future.

*Edit, I lowballed a bit on an Emotiva DMC-1 on Audiogon (trying to beat another lowball offer they had). If the seller bites, I figure I could resell it at a little bit of a loss if I changed my mind. I think in the long run having separates rather than a receiver would be better for my system as the Smyth Realiser is designed to be used in the "loop" from Pre outs to Amp.

[DigiPete]

I can't say how it compares to the DMC-1, but sonically I think it sounds great with all formats,

and the Audyssey room eq really works well as does the optional dynamic eq!

Not sure about your second question

[tkam]

I guess I'm not sure how your going to have things hooked up, I mean your going to use the pre-outs I get, but are you also going to be hooking the speakers up directly to the receiver too?

[Edwood]

I guess I'm not sure how your going to have things hooked up, I mean your going to use the pre-outs I get, but are you also going to be hooking the speakers up directly to the receiver too?

Yeah, that would be the problem with using a receiver with the Smyth Realiser. Unless there was a way to turn off all the speakers on the receiver when using the Pre Outs.

That's why I was favoring getting a Pre Pro vs. a receiver. But if there is an easy way to shut off speakers (rather than using a cludgy external speaker switch box), then a receiver would be fine for me as well.

-Ed

[tkam]

Well you can certainly mute the speakers, not sure if it would mute the pre-outs as well though.

[morphsci]

Well you can probably also set up an input configuration that uses none of the speakers. You can check out the users manual HERE

Edited August 8, 2009 by morphsci

[Edwood]

Well you can certainly mute the speakers, not sure if it would mute the pre-outs as well though.

It would make sense that it would mute the Pre Outs as well, since as a Pre amp, it's supposed to control the volume of an external amp. Hmmmmm.

I just got a response from the Seller of the DMC-1. Seems that there are a couple of offers (well, according to him). Was trying to save $25, oh well.

So would an Emotive DMC-1 be worth $450 shipped? I heard it's essentially a Sunfire Theater Grand IV clone, minus a few DSP options.

Having balanced Pre outs would sure be handy if I decided to upgrade to active monitors in the future.

[Edwood]

I read through the Denon manual. Doesn't say anything about being able to set speakers to off with analog 7.1 input.

I ended up pulling the trigger on that Emotiva DMC-1. Either way it will be quite a step up from my dying HK AVR 85. If anything I could sell it off for $50-100 loss later perhaps if I want to upgrade to something else. I would've waited longer, but the dying receiver is getting really annoying.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys (even though I didn't take them) I like weighing my decision against alternatives.

-Ed

[Dusty Chalk]

I would get one that has two zones and then set the zones of the speaker outs to be separate from the pre outs, and then send a 60 Hz tone on the speaker outs, and then run an air-conditioning unit off the speaker outs.

[Edwood]

Ooooo. Now that's a nice feature. I'd love to be able to have a receiver that cools the shit ton of heat that comes from my Pioneer plasma set.

[Dusty Chalk]

I have a stupid -- albeit serious this time -- question: why do you want a pre/pro? What functionality will the pre/pro provide that the Oppo will not? It's got a USB connection, which, if I'm not mistaken, will allow you to play your hard drive files. It plays every shiny disk under the sun, so there's that...

[Dusty Chalk]

Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Outlaw -- they seem one of the few that are still making pre/pros these days (Yamaha doesn't appear to, Integra..., Onkyo...) -- model numbers are 970, 990, and the upcoming 997 -- especially considering your criteria that you will only mostly be using it for older tech, you could get one of the two extant units. I know that's what I'd get if I was buying new today.

[Edwood]

I have a stupid -- albeit serious this time -- question: why do you want a pre/pro? What functionality will the pre/pro provide that the Oppo will not? It's got a USB connection, which, if I'm not mistaken, will allow you to play your hard drive files. It plays every shiny disk under the sun, so there's that...

Because I have other sources like the XBox 360 and an HDTV set top box. And the Oppo does not support NTFS file format via USB input, so that rules out all full length HD .mkv files. If it could play those, it would replace my Home Theater PC for sure.

[Edwood]

Also, I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Outlaw -- they seem one of the few that are still making pre/pros these days (Yamaha doesn't appear to, Integra..., Onkyo...) -- model numbers are 970, 990, and the upcoming 997 -- especially considering your criteria that you will only mostly be using it for older tech, you could get one of the two extant units. I know that's what I'd get if I was buying new today.

The 990 looks comparable to the Emotiva DMC-1. There aren't any listed on Audiogon. Cheapest 990 is over $100 more than the Emotiva DMC-1.

And the 997 is over my budget (need to leave some money for that Oppo BDP-83, afterall ), and who knows how long until it comes out? Most likely sooner than the Emotiva XMC-1 by a few years probably.

[Dusty Chalk]

Out of your price range, but information all the same.

[Edwood]

Oh, whoops. Forgot to update that I got the DMC-1.

But will keep an eye out for upgrades in the future. Don't we always look forward to upgrading?

[Dusty Chalk]

Impressions now or ban.

[Edwood]

Kind of difficult to quantify since I don't have anything else to compare to other than my old Receiver that is dying. (on the right of the DMC-1 in the pic above).

Overall, better details, smoother response. LFE is not quite as punchy as my HK AVR 85, but it is flatter reponse, and not as boomy as my old receiver. More details in the LFE bass, that's even noticeable with the Tactile transducers. I think the perceived "punchiness" in my HK AVR 85 was that it was missing a lot of bass detail, and I have it cranked more, so only the loudest content is noticeable, and suddenly pops in. Where as with the DMC-1 there is more subtle LFE bass effects, and I can actually notice the "stereo panning" of the tactile transducers. (Smyth Realiser has stereo tactile transducers outputs)

I really like DTS, much more dynamic and transient response than Dolby Digital.

Can't wait to hear what Lossless formats sound like with this set up. (via 8 channel analog output from something like an Oppo BDP-83)

One issue I've had with the DMC-1 is that it NEVER turns off. The so called "power" button does not turn it off, or put it any kind of standby. I simply turns off the displays. I measured it with my Kill-a-Watt meter, and it uses EXACTLY the same amount of power when on or in "standby". So, I use my PS Audio P300's power switch to turn off the power to the DMC-1. Not really a problem since the DMC-1 retains all of it's settings even with all power cut off to it.

But the problem is I can't have my Smyth Realiser hooked up into the P300 since if the Realiser does not have power, it does not keep the Head tracker unit charged, and it automatically turns on, draining it's power. Annoying. The Realiser's Head Tracker Unit does stay off and charged up if plugged into any standard USB charger. But it would've been nice if Smyth Research put a small on/off switch on the Head Tracker.

I prefer having the Realiser hooked up to my P300 since it's prone to noise, like ground loops, etc. It uses very little power, so running both the DMC-1 and Realiser on it does not cause it to heat up too much.

-Ed

[Edwood]

Oh, since I'm not using an external amp for my speakers yet, I'm using the zone 2 stereo downmix output the DMC-1 has outputted to my old HK AVR 85. So, if I just need some sound out of it for when I have company over, I can turn on the old HK AVR 85 and have sound.

Oh, the secondary zone audio thing is why the DMC-1 never shuts off since it can route and process audio even when it's "off". But they really should've included a basic power switch in the back near the IEC inlet. Perhaps when the warranty expires, I'll open it up and add one.

But most of the time, I use the Smyth Realiser. I can have three headphone amps running off it independently. So, at least 3 people can listen with headphones to my system. Using my custom PRIR profile, of course, so it may or may not sound great since my ears are different from other people.

I have the optical output from the Smyth Realiser going to my computer set up, where it is hooked up to my Grace m902's optical input. That way I can have the full Smyth SVS sound with my computer rig while I'm working and such. Minus the Tactile Transducers, of course, but it would be kind of difficult to work with my chair shaking and such.

-Ed

[Dusty Chalk]

Any feelings on the Outlaw vs. Emotiva question, anyone? Emotiva UMC-1 appears to have Dolby Digital Plus over the Outlaw 997, but the Outlaw has DTS-24/96 over the Emotiva. I realize these are minor, wouldn't mind hearing from someone who has more video experience than I saying which I'm more likely to run into more.

The Emotiva appears to have video scaling, nothing about the Outlaw.