It?s a matter of Perception.

[Yikes]

Another member said something that reminds me of some of my musings concerning how we perceive various types of stimuli.

Each format has its own sonic signature. Those people who grew up listening to vinyl have trained themselves to listen through the surface noise and accept the sonic signature, or limitations of records. Many of these individuals find listening to digital extremely unpleasant, even unacceptable. Whereas many who listen solely to digital and have never listened to vinyl find listening to records extremely unpleasant, even unacceptable.

Everyone has their own set of filters with which they process information. Many of us who originally listened solely to vinyl have developed another set of filters that allows us to also enjoy digital reproduction. Unfortunately some have rejected digital. They were unable to develop the new set of filters that would allow them to enjoy digital reproduction. As time and technology have marched on digital reproduction has gotten better. This reduces the degree of filtering that is needed to enjoy digital.

So our brains create these filters that allow us to enjoy these very different formats. I believe that this phenomenon also takes place when listening to a new piece of equipment. Whether or not we ultimately find the equipment to our liking or enjoyable depends to a large degree on each person?s ability to filter the perceived signal. This is complicated by the fact that most equipment also undergoes mechanical and electrical changes during its early stages of use.

So IMHO Break-In is not only the mechanical and electrical settling or running in of a piece of equipment, it is also the psycho-acoustical configuring of a new filter. Or in other words; Getting use to the gear.

[tkam]

In my opinion I think probably only abot 5-10% of "break-in/burn-in" is actually physical, mechanical, or electrical changes. The leftover 90-95% is absolutely a persons ears and brain getting used to the new sound. If people want to consider the mental aspect of it part of the break-in/burn-in process I'm fine with that. I'm sure many people aren't fine with that which is why the "is burn-in rea"l arguements have an endless shelf life.

[Dusty Chalk]

link

[tkam]

Interesting data, now only if you could find something similar for amps, sources and cables . Seriously though that doesn't surprise me much, it makes plenty of sense that drivers do physically change over a period time as they are used. However I still think a lot of "huge" and "night and day" changes people report is largely a factor of the ears and brain adjusting to a new sound.

[909]

I am still pretty skeptical when it comes to burn-in. I even find it amusing when people talk about their IEMs burning in (which I don?t believe is actually possible). Yet, even though, I am skeptical I?ve had varying degrees of audible improvements. When I listen to a brand new source I usually don?t focus so much on the subjective stuff, but actual quantitative things such as detail retrieval within a particular track that I know well. The biggest gains I?ve experienced during the burn in process have been with my digital source (Apollo). And second have been while breaking-in the A900 and SR225, yet I am not so sure how much was attributable to burn-in and/or psycho-acoustical.

I suppose getting use to new gear is like getting a new prescription from your optometrist and then allowing your brain a few hours or days to fully adjust to the new lenses or contacts.

[Dusty Chalk]

Interesting data, now only if you could find something similar for amps, sources and cables . Seriously though that doesn't surprise me much, it makes plenty of sense that drivers do physically change over a period time as they are used. However I still think a lot of "huge" and "night and day" changes people report is largely a factor of the ears and brain adjusting to a new sound.

You keep telling yourself that.

[tkam]

I will until someone proves to me that amps, sources and cables measure significantly different before and after burn-in.

[tkam]

I suppose getting use to new gear is like getting a new prescription from your optometrist and then allowing your brain a few hours or days to fully adjust to the new lenses or contacts.

Nice analogy

[Dusty Chalk]

I will until someone proves to me that amps, sources and cables measure significantly different before and after burn-in.

I was talking about the last sentence, I.E. " I still think a lot of "huge" and "night and day" changes people report is largely a factor of the ears and brain adjusting to a new sound." -- I just think it's funny that I accuse you of brainwashing yourself when you're accusing us of brainwashing ourselves. (Overstatement, but I think I've explained the joke now at this point, which I hate doing.)

I continue to think you're wrong. I don't usually listen to my equipment as it burns in (except speakers, and even then, I try to keep it to a minimum).

Let me rephrase that: I believe you're right about most people. I believe you're wrong about me by lumping me in with that weak-minded crowd.

[909]

I will until someone proves to me that amps, sources and cables measure significantly different before and after burn-in.

I thought the same way. I wanted to see cold hard data, but after talking with a few individuals much more knowledgeable about this stuff then probably either of us I started to accept the fact that most of the changes aren?t really significantly measurable. In fact, they suggested to me that one of the most precise instruments is the human ear. Some people have better hearing then others. And virtual everyone can work to a certain degree to improve their critical listening skills, but at some point trusting your own hearing and being as objective as possible with each new piece of gear is a positive thing to works towards.

[909]

What might be significant to one person might be insignificant to another. It?s all perception and your definition of the particular word because some one might consider a minor change to be a 5% to 10% difference while another might consider the same change to be major.

[aerius]

I will until someone proves to me that amps, sources and cables measure significantly different before and after burn-in.

I mentioned on Head-fi a couple months back that HiFi News & Reviews (the June issue I believe) had done an article on cable break-in. What they basically did was take a brand new cable and set it up as a loop between the output & input of a soundcard. Then they ran a piece of music through it a bunch of times and plotted the errors and the spread between the errors. After that broke-in the cable and ran the tests again, with the result that there was less spread in the errors. They concluded that there was a difference, but that it's still too early to make a definitive statement and that it'll take more tests to come to a conclusion.

[n_maher]

I will until someone proves to me that amps, sources and cables measure significantly different before and after burn-in.

The measurement part will be hard, I've talked with Tyll about whether or not different cables for say, the HD650, measured any differently on their rig. He laughed at me. But I think there's a good number of us who would agree that we can hear a difference between say the stock cable and several aftermarket cables but as far as the frequency response measurements are concerned they are the same.

So I guess I live in the camp that believes it is at least part perception and part reality as far as break-in goes and that quantifying those perceived differences is impossible.

[Yikes]

Just because you haven't measured a difference doesn't mean that there isn't one. It could just mean that you?re not measuring the correct thing. Or it could mean that there really isn't a difference.

To me measurements are a means to quantify what I have heard. Sometimes Measurements explain what I have heard, sometimes they don?t. It doesn?t change what I?ve heard. I?ve never liked something because it has measured well, and measurements have never changed my mind about something that I have liked.

[Chrysanthemum]

Yeah, whatever......................How great a sound you hear really is dependant on how good the TeckFlex looks with the headphones. Image is everything.

[Yikes]

You betcha, and that's coming from a man who gets a hard on thinking about a lawn mower