APL Denon 3910 mod

[DigiPete]

Hi Folks,

This is my virgin post here at Headcase

I just sold my Zapfiltered E5, and now am eyeing a mod for my 3910.

Alex at APL suggested one of his mods:

General PSU mods

Add new transformer and linear PSU w/reg. for the digital section

Custom clock to replace all 6 clocks on the 3910

Bypass DSPs for best digital to the DAC (loose source direct i.e. SACD>172khz PCM, no: bass management, time alignment, level controls on FL,FR)

Double DACs (one 1796 per channel) (loose MIX L R outputs)

Analog stage mods with SE mosfet buffer output stage.

He says this will kill very respectable $10k vinyl rigs...

All for $1xxx

Anybody have experience with this type of mod?

Cheers,

DigiPete

[tkam]

Welcome to Head-case, while I have no direct experience with any of Alex's modded 3910's I've been extremely happy with the modded Philips SACD1000 I have from him. I'm also eyeing the new DAC he has coming out . Those mods you listed sound very similiar to the mods he now offers for the Sony 9100ES and early reports on that unit is that it is a very nice piece.

[DigiPete]

Thanks tkam,

I am trying to find out more about the output stage, the description is not too informative.

One thing is it will not be balanced

This is kinda bumming me out since I built a dynamite and used it with my Zapfiltered E5 to much enjoyment.

[philodox]

If you have a balanced rig, go with balanced.

Maybe you can see if he will do all the other mods except the output stage at a reduced price... then install a zapfilter on the output.

[DigiPete]

If you have a balanced rig, go with balanced.

Maybe you can see if he will do all the other mods except the output stage at a reduced price... then install a zapfilter on the output.

I will talk to him some more, and see what can be done. I don't think he likes the Zapfilter, so I am skeptical about the possibility that he will do all but the output stage.

Maybe he will build a balanced output stage for me. We'll see \

Pete

[philodox]

What doesn't he like about the zapfilter?

Good luck.

[tkam]

From what I can tell he seems to like keeping things in the output stage as short and simple as possible. I bet all those active parts on the zapfilter drive him nuts .

[DigiPete]

From what I can tell he seems to like keeping things in the output stage as short and simple as possible. I bet all those active parts on the zapfilter drive him nuts .

Well I asked what he 'heard' from the Zapfilter that he didn't like.

He stated the new MKII is improved over the older version, but 'too many parts'.

He really did not answer my question about issues with the sound.

Matt Anker also wrote back to me that he did not see how the APL clock is better than

using an XO3 clock. Since the APL clock has one crystal (not six) and uses a clock generator, just like the Denon 3910 does (and likely the same chip as the Denon).

Now this is getting confusing. Lots of contradictory opinions.

[philodox]

Did you see the new clock that Lars Clausen designed? www.newclassd.com

Would be interesting to see what he thinks of it.

As for 'all the active components' in the ZapFilter, sounds like he just doesn't agree with the design. I know I liked what I heard in the Zhaolu Renato modded, though I am not opposed to there being a better solution out there somewhere.

[DigiPete]

Interesting looking clock. I wonder when it will be available?

I thought the Zapfilter sounded amazing in my E5.

Not sure what another topology could do better?

[DigiPete]

Well after talking to Matt Anker at length about APL's proposed mod to my 3910,

I have decided to go with SACDmods

[Chrysanthemum]

The APL mods sounded exactly like what HRAM does (shutter to think that). I would have been worried that APL might farm yours out to HRAM to do. HRAM sucks. You did the E5 mod your self. Why not this one? And after Matt is done with it do go in and beef up the size of the regular caps in the P/S and use ultra fast soft recovery diods, that is if you coulden't get him to do it. You will have a winner then.

[DigiPete]

The E5 was really easy to do.

The 3910 requires opamp surgery which I am shying away from.

But I will probably do what you suggest, just to improve things a bit in the PSU.

If it sounds as good as the E5 or better, I will be a happy camper.

Pete

[DigiPete]

My SACDmods 3910 is on its way back

I had Matt replace all the caps on the DAC board with Blackgates (FWIW).

[DigiPete]

With my recabled K701s and the modded Denon, it will be like listening to a brand new (a hopefully way better) system.

I sold my Zapfiltered and clock E5 to a headfier, who thinks is easily competes with / or even beats his Meridian G08.

I'll be happy if the Denon does that well on redbook. Now I can't wait to hear what SACD and DVD-A will sound like (post mods)!!

[tkam]

It'll be interesting to see how you think it compares to your E5. The denon has better dacs than the E5, but the switching PS in the denon is absolutely garbage. Hopefully the blackgates can clean it up some for you.

[tkam]

I sold my Zapfiltered and clock E5 to a headfier, who thinks is easily competes with / or even beats his Meridian G08.

That's not saying all that much

[DigiPete]

It'll be interesting to see how you think it compares to your E5. The denon has better dacs than the E5, but the switching PS in the denon is absolutely garbage. Hopefully the blackgates can clean it up some for you.

Too bad that comparo will have to rely on my audio memory...

The Denon PSU is not too great, but I think Matthew does what is necessary to clean it up.

I may do more mods to the PSU myself, like bigger caps and hexfreds.

[Chrysanthemum]

TRUST ME. Dial BR549 for a good deal.......Er, I mean, just do to the power supply as was done to my 3910 and the power supply issue will be a mute point. You'll have plenty of juice and it will be "virgin" pure and clean. Not that anybody here knows about that now-a-days. And the ones that should, can't remember that long ago.

[DigiPete]

The newly SACDmodded 3910 just came in Friday afternoon

Listened a little - it sounds very nice so far through my newly recabled K701s

now have it burning in for 9 days,

while I am on vacation.

I'll check back in next weekend.

[Chrysanthemum]

I am about ready to tear apart the SACDmodded Sony 9100ES. Don't misunderstand, the SACDmods on the Sony are terriffic. But just not as good as it can be. I just do not have as great a bass impact/resolve as I am getting from the SACDmods/APL Denon 3910. I think I will do the Sony power supply with bigger 2x "high end" Panasonic caps throught. Then it should be OK.

[DigiPete]

Is that Panasonic FM/FC's ?

[Chrysanthemum]

Panasonic FM over FC's. Or Rubycon ZA / ZL's would be better. I just don't think that this situation merits the use or expense of BlackGates. This is more of a supply on demand of electricity problem and not a sound alteration problem. ...Well indirectly it is. If the unit has the deep reserves of ultra clean power to draw on, it will in turn improve the bass. Also, in respect to how well my Denon 3910 turned out to the Sony 9100ES, is due to just that fact. I don't care what people say about switching as opposed to transformer power supply's, the ultimate goal is abundant ultra clean power for the unit to draw on. Granted, in reality (all other things being equal in a unit), a transformer type powersupply is prefered. But you can do as well as needed to the point of over-kill with a beefy modified, ultra filtered, switching power supply.

[Chrysanthemum]

Oh, and don't forget to hammer in some "ultra fast soft recovery diodes", in the power supply also......... Just for good measure.

I also agree with Matt in the fact that a good old fashioned, very hot, well melted, bullet proof, solder joint is better than a cold "high content" silver solder joint. Too many people worry about having to have high content silver solder and then end up having far to many cold solder joints, burned up parts, of overly heat stressed parts, trying to make high content silver solder work. He doesn't use it nor do I.

[DigiPete]

Well after 275 hours of burn-in, here are some quick impressions:

The treble now is very well intergrated with the other frequencies, not harsh but just right.

Was a tad brighter than I liked, at first. Will listen to some brighter recordings to see how they fair.

Tons of detail, very transparent. I can now hear the 'mic', if that makes any sense

Great soundstage. The modded CD-E5 might have been a slightly more 3D here (going on memory),

but the E5 does have a dedicated CD clock frequency which results in a bit lower jitter, which could help.

Redbook sounds wonderful, really good, but SACD and DVD-Audio are just breathtaking.

Lots of impact and bass slam, but the bass is not bloated, very clean and tight,

maybe a hair lighter in the bass than the modded E5 (need to do more listening in this area).

Will see if larger caps in the PSU (after the switching transistor), and hexfreds will affect this at all.

More to come later...