Takashi Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 A few days ago I decided to take the step up to much higher quality Audio. After researching my choices for around 200-300 dollar headphones for about 8 hours I ended up buying the Denon AH-D2000's for about $210 on amazon. My first step into high end audio was the Shure SE530 in ears which were nice, but i ran them over with my rolly chair and broke them :palm: Since then i've had the bose triport headphones and the bose in ear headphones, which have been adequate but very disappointing in terms of bass. I am a basshead so I believe I will thoroughly enjoy the heavy bass of these ahd2k cans. Anyway, when these Denons come sometime this week I would be glad to give my perception of them from a rather unexperienced audiophile, hopefully that will be of some help. Also initally I will be driving them from my macbook pro, but I defintely am looking into getting an amp as well. Any suggestions for a good cheap amp would be nice. After reading a rather lengthy article here on headcase about headphones amps it seems that the Nuforce headphone amp looks like it has good synergy with the AH-D2000. I'm looking forward to your guys opinions and to progress my way through the audiophile world
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 A few days ago I decided to take the step up to much higher quality Audio. After researching my choices for around 200-300 dollar headphones for about 8 hours I ended up buying the Denon AH-D2000's for about $210 on amazon. My first step into high end audio was the Shure SE530 in ears which were nice, but i ran them over with my rolly chair and broke them :palm: Since then i've had the bose triport headphones and the bose in ear headphones, which have been adequate but very disappointing in terms of bass. I am a basshead so I believe I will thoroughly enjoy the heavy bass of these ahd2k cans. Anyway, when these Denons come sometime this week I would be glad to give my perception of them from a rather unexperienced audiophile, hopefully that will be of some help. Also initally I will be driving them from my macbook pro, but I defintely am looking into getting an amp as well. Any suggestions for a good cheap amp would be nice. After reading a rather lengthy article here on headcase about headphones amps it seems that the Nuforce headphone amp looks like it has good synergy with the AH-D2000. I'm looking forward to your guys opinions and to progress my way through the audiophile world In your price range ($200 - $250) there are several decent amps for the AH-D2000, including the Nuforce (that particular amp sounds congested out of the box and needs 24 hours of burn-in to clear up/open up the sound). Other good inexpensive D2000 compatible amps include the head-direct.com HiFiMan EF2, and Travagans Red/White/or Green. Also, the Millett Starving Student Hybrid is nice with D2000, as is the Cavalli CTH tube hybrid. The Nuforce, EF2 and Travagans White will include decent USB DAC as well. You can improve the EF2 by tube rolling, and improve the Travagans by changing the opamps inside. If you find my public profile on head-fi forums you'll find links to my reviews of these amps in the "about me" section. Good luck!
GPH Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Sorry in advance for not contributing to the thread, but do we really need that kind of BS here? It's one of the reasons why I don't read the other place anymore. that particular amp sounds congested out of the box and needs 24 hours of burn-in to clear up/open up the sound
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Sorry in advance for not contributing to the thread, but do we really need that kind of BS here? It's one of the reasons why I don't read the other place anymore.
GPH Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 If you had said something like "to my ears, the amp took about a day to settle", while I would have been highly skeptical, I wouldn't have made the previous comment. The problem is that you proclaimed the 24-hours burn-in time as a fact, which could be misleading to a newbie and isn't of any real value to anyone.
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 If you had said something like "to my ears, the amp took about a day to settle", while I would have been highly skeptical, I wouldn't have made the previous comment. The problem is that you proclaimed the 24-hours burn-in time as a fact, which could be misleading to a newbie and isn't of any real value to anyone. Well, "to my mind" there is little difference between what I said and the way you want me to say it. Anyway, my 24 hours was wrong. After your post I went to look at my actual comments about the Nuforce - burn-in only took about 3-4 hours for me, but I picked 24 hours to post here as a safe number so I wouldn't have to look it up (trying not to promote doing someone else's work when they can search just as well as I). I had posted comments about the Nuforce + D2000 with only 1 hour on the headphone section, and wasn't excited about the amp with headphones although I had been using it's speaker out with SRD-7 Pro and HE60 and liked it a lot: Nuforce Icon usb Dac, preamp, headphone amp, power amp ... Everything in one~ I said that I planned to give it 100 hours of run time and report back, and then if not satisfied I was going to do another 100 hours. I expected a long slow process with mild changes over a week or two. It turned out that it only needed 3-4 hours total on the headphone section. Nuforce Icon usb Dac, preamp, headphone amp, power amp ... Everything in one~ Nuforce Icon usb Dac, preamp, headphone amp, power amp ... Everything in one~ Nuforce Icon usb Dac, preamp, headphone amp, power amp ... Everything in one~ So, this is where you may now jump in and give me hell about my "minute-by-minute rundown" of the process. I hadn't planned to post hourly updates, but I was listening to it while I was online and it was changing quickly and settling down, so I posted what I heard as I heard it, while I was busy reading the forums.
digger945 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 In my experience/in my mind/to my ears/in my opinion/given my listening preferences and taste combined with my music and the way it's recorded and played back...... .... i have found it very hard to beat the D2000 as entry level cans. They still do what they do very well... for me that is, and I still listen to them a lot.
Pars Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 <snip> the D2000 as entry level cans. <snip> It is hard for me to think of cans with an MSRP of $350 as entry level. Many people would think that $100 is expensive for a pair of headphones.
morphsci Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I have a pair of D2000. Buying them used they were a good buy but at least for me they were not keepers until I had them recabled (APS v3). At their price point they are bettered by my HD-25-I-II except for comfort. But overall for a closed can i like them well enough to use them at work as an adjunct to my K340's. Oh, and I did not see anything particularly egregious about Larry's burn-in comment about the New Force.
GPH Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Oh, and I did not see anything particularly egregious about Larry's burn-in comment about the New Force. To be fair, I don't think Larry meant to put it the way I read it, it just rubs me in the wrong way when someone says something like "X can needs Y amount of burn-in" and then other people cite that as reference. Seems like it has become the norm on H-F. It is hard for me to think of cans with an MSRP of $350 as entry level.Agreed. I had the chance to hear the D2000, D5000 and modded D5000 at a meet and I found none of them were good reference cans, let alone worthy entry-level cans. The D2000 were not bad with rock and metal, but I didn't like how they handled more complex stuff like jazz and orchestral music. I thought the bass was overpowering and the midrange was pretty bland. Unless you absolutely need closed cans, I would consider other options in the same price range, such as Sennheiser HD600/650, Grado HF-1 and Stax SR-202.
digger945 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I paid $220 shipped for mine, used on HF. I understand, my definition of entry level pricing is probably not the same as everyone elses, but I'de still buy them for $350 if I absolutely had to and there were no other options.
Pars Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 <snip> Agreed. I had the chance to hear the D2000, D5000 and modded D5000 at a meet and I found none of them were good reference cans, let alone worthy entry-level cans. The D2000 were not bad with rock and metal, but I didn't like how they handled more complex stuff like jazz and orchestral music. I thought the bass was overpowering and the midrange was pretty bland.<snip> That is good to know as I am kinda looking for a good but not $$$ closed can for home use. I don't listen to classical all the time, but they would need to be able to handle Mahler, etc. Doesn't sound like these would be a candidate then...
Takashi Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Posted July 31, 2009 Too late for critisism on these cans, they are coming monday, and from the extensive research i've done I think they are the perfect cans for me. I listen to a lot of downtempo/ambient/trance/Piano/and bass heavy music. The d2000 are said to have much more "color" and "life" for such musics, which is why I choose them. Also I will be using them at work (I work 8 hours a day around computers) so as not to disturb other people. If I do start listening to more conventional music, I have heard good things about the Markl mod, which tightens the bass and clarifies the midrange (So i've heard). However I believe the sound that will come out of these things will be quiet content. Now I had another 2 question: Firstly, I own a lathe and have been doing woodwork for quiet a few years (i'm Eighteen). I was planning on building my own custom caps for these, as wood caps have been said to really improve the sound on the plastic ones, and look cool too . I was wondering if you guys had any suggestion on wood and/or the actual turning process any advice would be great. Secondly, i've been looking at the APSv3 cables (APuresound) which would eventually become my recabling option. Any people who have heard the APSv3 on the denon, i'd really like to hear what changes you hear, particularly in terms of bass. Thanks for your help and further advice.
guzziguy Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I have just one question. If they are perfect for you, why would you need or want to recable them?
Takashi Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Posted July 31, 2009 I haven't even heard them yet, as they (FINALLY) come on monday. I am not set on recabling, however I am set on getting the best sound I can get. I would like to hear opinions on the effects recabling with the apsv3 has on sound. If I like these changes, eventually down the line I will certainly recable them ( A recables woodied d2000 is said to have equal if not better sound then the stock d5000 ). I understand it is all about how it sounds to me, and that's why I am asking what effects the apsv3 cables have . Thanks,
Asr Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I would recommend not re-cabling any headphones unless you absolutely love how they sound as-is and are seeking to get maybe an extra 1% performance out of them. And even then, I would recommend it only for headphones that are especially revealing. I don't particularly regret having my Audio-Technica AD2000 re-cabled since the headphones have proven to be very detailed and can scale quite high up, but I would question the purpose of re-cabling the Denon, as I owned one and it wasn't very detailed in any part of the frequency spectrum. Also IMO, cables should not inflect their own sonic signature on the input, and the APS V3 does just that, in my experience. I've heard some cables that do inflect a sonic signature.
Cankin Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 For myself, I'd certainly upgrade my source or amp before I recable my headphone
GPH Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I'd wait until you have spent some good time with the AH-D2000 before thinking about a recable. Usually, I'm pretty moderate in my opinions about headphones, but during the short time I spent with the D2000, I couldn't help thinking "this is not how my music is supposed to sound like" and I was wondering if my ears were screwed up because many people at the meet liked them and the Denon are very popular on head-fi. Considering your music tastes, your mileage might vary though, and I wish you'll like them more than me.
morphsci Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 The problem is that the cable on the D2000 really, really sucks. To my ears they do change pretty dramatically with the recable. The only phone that changed more was the K701 going from single-entry SE to double-entry balanced. That being said, in both cases I did not have a problem hearing the potential in both phones and they did not absolutely disgust me on first listen as some other (*cough*ultrasone*cough) cans have. I would suggest you listen to them a while before deciding to recable.
atothex Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Meh, for the cable price difference, you can probably pick up a D5000, maybe even a used D7000. Those already have wood cups, too.
diebenkorn Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Takashi: Revenge of the Nerds Tricycle Race on Yahoo! Video Go Takashi Go! Love that song at the end...
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 Acknowledging the general disregard for markl mods and Lawton Audio's marketing tactics here on Head-Case (I myself am shocked by his HD800 impressions and cable comments), I will add the following info, knowing I am opening myself up to more ridicule by some here. The stock D2000/D5000 have too much bass for my tastes, and detail is a bit lacking, and the highs are not smooth - those areas improve noticeably with my APS V2 cabled D2000. The mids were a bit recessed on my re-cabled D2000, but that improved some with the mahogany wood cups that I got from Lawton Audio (and maybe from stuffing the earpads to be fuller). My D2000 have no internal mods and bass is well controlled with just the cable. At this point I like them better than the re-cabled Edition 9 that I sold, but I'd prefer to listen to my HD600 or RS-1 over the Denon. Switching from a listening session with the HD600 or RS-1 to my D2000 reveals the D2000 to still be a darker more closed sounding phone. The best "stock" Denon I have heard were the D7000 at the Nov 08 Colorado meet, but they were still a little dark with mild recessed mids, although bass was much better than the stock D5000. More recently, at the Colorado meet last weekend we passed around a pair of modded D7000 with Jenna Labs cable, Lawton wood cups, stuffed earpads and internal dampening. The modded D2000 sound a little more laid back vs the modded D7000 which sound a little more open and clear. Many people preferred these modded D7000 over my modded D2000 as they were indeed sounding like a "second cousin" to Ray's Sony R10. I still would NEVER sell an R10 for these modded D7000, but I would take them over my modded A900 or modded D2000 or any stock Denon, as well as over an Edition 8 or Edition 9. I'm a little flabbergasted that markl liked his early modded D5000 better than his R10, because while I thought his modded recabled D5000 were better than stock they were not that good. However, these particular modded re-woodied D7000 that I still have on loan for our recent meet are what I had expected from the original modded D5000, which were a little bit of a let down after all the hype. Those early modded D5000 were better than stock but not neutral/natural and rich like the R10. Nevertheless, when I need a closed can to not leak sound and bother others, I grab my custom IEM or ATH-ESW10 first, and haven't used my Denon much since February when I started playing more with my new O2 Mk1 and K1000. I consider my D2000 to be more of a fun phone than a reference phone, but these loaner LA7000 (as markl calls them) really do sound much better than you would expect. They definitely lack the "cupped hands" mids that I heard with modded D5000 last year, and are therefore more transparent sounding. I think if it weren't for mark's blatant BS marketing that the modded D7000 would be more popular, assuming they all sound this good and that this pair isn't a ringer. I hope more of you get to hear the modded D7000 and can make up your own mind about them. I still have a problem with the huge cost, and for the price of these I have the HD800 that are still better.
digger945 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Posted July 31, 2009 I consider my D2000 to be more of a fun phone.... Indeed they are fun. I have found they responded quite well to being balanced, and if you have some extra power to give 'em, but they will only go so far in stock form. Given all the comments, I shall have to give the recable a try I guess. I'de love to try some D7000 drivers in the 2000 chassis I just bought, but it seems too soon for the parts to be available yet. Thanks for sharing the comments.
HeadphoneAddict Posted August 1, 2009 Report Posted August 1, 2009 Indeed they are fun. I have found they responded quite well to being balanced, and if you have some extra power to give 'em, but they will only go so far in stock form. Given all the comments, I shall have to give the recable a try I guess. I'de love to try some D7000 drivers in the 2000 chassis I just bought, but it seems too soon for the parts to be available yet. Thanks for sharing the comments. I forgot to mention, mine are balanced, and they do like an amp with good current reserves.
ecclesand Posted August 1, 2009 Report Posted August 1, 2009 I enjoy my modded D2000 and plan to recable them myself when I get some more practice with the soldering iron in. I am re-cabling them because I can't stand the feel and flexibility of the stock cable. If the re-cable provides some improvement in SQ then that's a bonus. With some added dampening in the cups and a set of JMoney leather pads, they sound very good to my ears.
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