Augsburger Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Who did you buy yours from? Direct from SS?
jp11801 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 yes but only because I got to know them through Al's and my purchase of their hardware. I do think you can buy direct from the website as well.
Voltron Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 I'm still totally sold on Amarra and think it is well worth the money so shoot me. The ease of use for listening to any sample rate is awesome and the sound is quite noticeably improved on a good system. I cannot wait for the needle-drop solution to be more integrated but right now I have some serious Sonic Studio software in tandem and recording is a breeze. I just have to figure out chopping up the tracks and I will be in business. I have had plenty of help from Sonic and others, but I cannot seem to lock the process into my brain (and failed to take proper notes). And Greg, if you are buying you should contact Meier Shadi at the Beverly Hills audio shop (on Amarra website). He was at CanJam and is a really good guy. SS would point you to him in any event, as I understand it.
Augsburger Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 I'm still totally sold on Amarra and think it is well worth the money so shoot me. The ease of use for listening to any sample rate is awesome and the sound is quite noticeably improved on a good system. I cannot wait for the needle-drop solution to be more integrated but right now I have some serious Sonic Studio software in tandem and recording is a breeze. I just have to figure out chopping up the tracks and I will be in business. I have had plenty of help from Sonic and others, but I cannot seem to lock the process into my brain (and failed to take proper notes). And Greg, if you are buying you should contact Meier Shadi at the Beverly Hills audio shop (on Amarra website). He was at CanJam and is a really good guy. SS would point you to him in any event, as I understand it. Thanks Al, as I recall I spoke to him briefly at Can Jam and he was a really nice guy. I will give him a call and I look forward to the improvements in my higher rez iTunes files, thanks to JPnums.........
Voltron Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 I will add to your stocks one of these days...
HeadphoneAddict Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Any news about ALAC support yet?
Hopstretch Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Posted October 15, 2009 Any news about ALAC support yet? Yup, that's probably the adoption point for me too.
The Monkey Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yup, that's probably the adoption point for me too. x2.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yup, that's probably the adoption point for me too. x2. x krmathis+1
VPI Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 I have been running through CDs getting a pretty large collection of AIFF together but it would certainly be much easier to keep them in ALAC. I really need a manual for the demo though. I cannot change core audio rates to 24/96 without getting a great Alvin and the Chipmunks impression as the higher the sample rate the faster the song plays. I assume since Amarra is running things it will allow iTunes to play the high res recordings at full rates without the Apple Midi controls set to 24/96. I have to transfer some hi-res music to the laptop to test my theory unless someone wants to enlighten me.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yup, that's probably the adoption point for me too. If you buy the Amarra Mini version and later want to go with the full blown dealy, can you upgrade?
linuxworks Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 I'd have to nix the remote library AND convert all my ALAC to AIFF. I'll wait for a revision or two to reconsider, but at the moment I enjoy my system plenty without it. when I was reading up on the amarra website, it 'dissed' nfs and samba and said that remote file access was 'bad' somehow. they lost all cred, in my eyes, with that kind of statement. until they tell us what they are doing, its all just marketing hype to me. computers are quite easy to setup to output bit perfect audio. its not rocket science and does NOT need dsp! dongles only add insult to injury. I hate to say it, but mac people are more gullible and so maybe they are more easily shaken free of a kilobuck (?)
linuxworks Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 That sounds more like corporate secrecy than true obfuscation. If the designer explained why it worked, it would rather undercut his bottom line. No harm in a little secrecy, in my book. disagree. you can explain what you are doing and not give away the shop. this is the same fallacy that hardware vendors use to NOT give you drivers in source form. anyone who does driver work knows that drivers will never let you reverse engineer the hardware or dsp algorithms! so, he could explain what he's doing - but I suspect that there's a ton of smoke and mirrors going on here. there is no other valid reason to hold back the tech info. the fact that 'serious professionals' have bought into this, blindly (no design details) makes me wonder who these so-called pros are and if they're worth anything or are just resting on some name-fame of some kind. in science, disclosure is king. all else is bullshit.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 when I was reading up on the amarra website, it 'dissed' nfs and samba and said that remote file access was 'bad' somehow. they lost all cred, in my eyes, with that kind of statement. until they tell us what they are doing, its all just marketing hype to me. computers are quite easy to setup to output bit perfect audio. its not rocket science and does NOT need dsp! dongles only add insult to injury. I hate to say it, but mac people are more gullible and so maybe they are more easily shaken free of a kilobuck (?) Well to be fair we do not really "know" what core audio is doing either, that is unless you have seen the actual code. I have heard Amarra and there is a difference to my ears. Enough so that I am willing to suspend my dongle hatred long enough to at least check out the demo in my system. Oh, and I am a PC person who also owns a couple of MACs.
VPI Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 If you buy the Amarra Mini version and later want to go with the full blown dealy, can you upgrade? Yes, you get full value when you upgrade.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yes, you get full value when you upgrade. Excellent. Once there is ALAC support I think I will download the demo and unless it sounds significantly worse on my office system than it did at DanJam, I'll buy the mini version. Then the slippery slope of Amarra compatible hardware, etc. ....
Hopstretch Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Posted October 15, 2009 The dongle is a pisser. iLok is pretty much a rootkit, as I understand it, which doesn't exactly promote warm fuzzies.
Dreadhead Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 disagree. you can explain what you are doing and not give away the shop. this is the same fallacy that hardware vendors use to NOT give you drivers in source form. anyone who does driver work knows that drivers will never let you reverse engineer the hardware or dsp algorithms! so, he could explain what he's doing - but I suspect that there's a ton of smoke and mirrors going on here. there is no other valid reason to hold back the tech info. the fact that 'serious professionals' have bought into this, blindly (no design details) makes me wonder who these so-called pros are and if they're worth anything or are just resting on some name-fame of some kind. in science, disclosure is king. all else is bullshit. I can't agree more. The whole things stinks of crap to me. Well to be fair we do not really "know" what core audio is doing either, that is unless you have seen the actual code. I have heard Amarra and there is a difference to my ears. Enough so that I am willing to suspend my dongle hatred long enough to at least check out the demo in my system. Oh, and I am a PC person who also owns a couple of MACs. For me there was an audible and striking difference when it was on vs when it was off in DOTU's system. I don't know what it does but I know that stuff shouldn't change that much with somethings that is supposedly only making sure the output is bit perfect. They're doing some voodoo, which is why they are obfuscating the situation because if they told you what they were doing someone else could do it too.
linuxworks Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Well to be fair we do not really "know" what core audio is doing either, that is unless you have seen the actual code. the modern mac code is unix based. I have a hard time believing its not *already* bit-perfect and doing things properly. I'm not a mac fan but its incredulous to think that they 'messed up' something so simple as digital audio out to a sound card. folks, that's all it is - clocking bits out to a serial card; same as rs232 (at one level). read a byte, send to spdif hardware. THAT hardware does the proper bit timing and its all hardware these days, software simply does not (and should not!) enter into it. software simply keeps the buffers from being empty. a pentium 200 with win98 (old school) can do that.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) For me there was an audible and striking difference when it was on vs when it was off in DOTU's system. I don't know what it does but I know that stuff shouldn't change that much with somethings that is supposedly only making sure the output is bit perfect. They're doing some voodoo, which is why they are obfuscating the situation because if they told you what they were doing someone else could do it too. Yep it is pretty obvious when you listen to it that they are doing something and my guess it has to do with timing or more precisely, timing tolerances. I say this based upon my experience back in my early TT days (early mid 70s). I never could find a TT that sounded right to me until I listened to a DD table. Turns out I was and am hypersensitive to speed variations and it was subtly annoying me. I could be ( and probably am totally) wrong but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Oh and it doesn't bother me that they are being obscure about exactly what they are doing because, as you said, if they told us, then anyone else could also do it. Edited October 15, 2009 by morphsci
grawk Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 when I was reading up on the amarra website, it 'dissed' nfs and samba and said that remote file access was 'bad' somehow. they lost all cred, in my eyes, with that kind of statement. I promise you samba and nfs are wrought with timing issues. If what you are doing is timing dependent, then you very much need to avoid network based file access. I believe this is also the problem with ALAC and FLAC support. If you're working with timing sensitive material, adding proccesses that slow things down can cause real problems. I hate to say it, but mac people are more gullible and so maybe they are more easily shaken free of a kilobuck (?) yah, fuck you too
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) the modern mac code is unix based. I have a hard time believing its not *already* bit-perfect and doing things properly. I'm not a mac fan but its incredulous to think that they 'messed up' something so simple as digital audio out to a sound card. folks, that's all it is - clocking bits out to a serial card; same as rs232 (at one level). read a byte, send to spdif hardware. THAT hardware does the proper bit timing and its all hardware these days, software simply does not (and should not!) enter into it. software simply keeps the buffers from being empty. a pentium 200 with win98 (old school) can do that. See now there is the key, the bit timing and the timing may also be affected by whatever else is being done by the processors. Also saying it is hardware and not software is way too simplistic as it is software AND hardware together not either or. The software may be integral in making sure the hardware gets enough resources to operate properly. So, especially for music, Bits are Bits unless they arrive at the wrong time and then they are other bits plus random variation ... now whether this is audible or not? I have no fucking idea as there are real biological thresholds plus variation about that mean. Edited October 15, 2009 by morphsci
Dreadhead Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yep it is pretty obvious when you listen to it that they are doing something and my guess it has to do with timing or more precisely, timing tolerances. I say this based upon my experience back in my early TT days (early mid 70s). I never could find a TT that sounded right to me until I listened to a DD table. Turns out I was and am hypersensitive to speed variations and it was subtly annoying me. I could be ( and probably am totally) wrong but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Oh and it doesn't bother me that they are being obscure about exactly what they are doing because, as you said, if they told us, then anyone else could also do it. Yeah my guess is that they're applying a phase "correcting" filter in the time domain with a convolution much like Ayre does. I just can't get over the "the correct math is not the best sounding math" (paraphrase) statement they made.
morphsci Posted October 15, 2009 Report Posted October 15, 2009 Yeah my guess is that they're applying a phase "correcting" filter in the time domain with a convolution much like Ayre does. I just can't get over the "the correct math is not the best sounding math" (paraphrase) statement they made. Yeah, the math statement bothered me but I chalked it up to making it suitable for popular science. I read it as their mathematical model may not actually be the optimum model and ours is.
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