Beefy Posted July 21, 2009 Report Posted July 21, 2009 Sorry, the irony here is to f'ing thick. Oh, snap!
oatmeal769 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Posted July 21, 2009 I think so. Some people feels it plateaus real fast though, but my personal experience is that I've heard quite a bit of variance between several sources that I thought were all good and could be considered top tier.Yeah, My ears couldn't tell much difference once the cost was over a grand, when I heard them at can jam. They all sounded very neutral and transparent - Maybe if I really gave a couple longer listens... But I immediately heard a very big difference between a good one like the PS Audio, and the Zero DAC which I'll be stuck with for a while! I hope I'll at least get some of what I bought the Zana for.
screaming oranges Posted July 21, 2009 Report Posted July 21, 2009 Yeah, My ears couldn't tell much difference once the cost was over a grand, when I heard them at can jam. They all sounded very neutral and transparent - Maybe if I really gave a couple longer listens... But I immediately heard a very big difference between a good one like the PS Audio, and the Zero DAC which I'll be stuck with for a while! I hope I'll at least get some of what I bought the Zana for. My purchases are always a gamble in the sense that I hardly ever notice improvements with sources/amps upon first listen. It takes me two weeks of dedicated listening to a new source/amp, and then when I switch back I hear the difference. But I can never do it right away (note: when I say "new" I do not mean new in the sense of me being 1st owner, but in the sense of new to me. 90% of my stuff is secondhand.). It happens the same with headphones. Only when I go back and downgrade (or sidegrade) do I tell the difference, never right away when moving up.
oatmeal769 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Posted July 21, 2009 Oh, big time, Going up not so much, but man, as soon as you go back down you're like, "How in the hell..."
pedalhead Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Hi all. I've been lurking for a while, thought I'd dip my toe & see what the water's like over here. I'm > < this close to pre-ordering a BA with Craig, but I note it ships without the 300B tubes. Being a bit of a tube dummy, I just googled 300B & the prices range from not a lot to more than a very lot. As I'm trying to put a budget together for this beast, does anyone have any thoughts on suitable tubes that'll do this amp justice? Do I really need to spend $1k+ on a pair of EAT 300Bs, or is it likely the BA will still sound awesome with something much less expensive like JJ or similar? I think some crazy expensive tubes might be the difference between getting the BA or going for something a step down in drool-ness. Cheers.
dsavitsk Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Do I really need to spend $1k+ on a pair of EAT 300Bs, or is it likely the BA will still sound awesome with something much less expensive like JJ or similar? In general, in a standard single ended "300B" amp, assuming that everything is reasonably done, the things that influence the overall sound from most important to least important are ... 1. topology (including the power supply) 2. quality of passives and iron 3. quality of driver tubes 4. the 300B's Western Electrics may well sound a lot better than Valve Arts, but I'd take a well designed amp with good iron and caps and cheap tubes over a run of the mill amp with WE outputs any day. As a matter of fact, I have 300b amps with good iron, a good topology, and extra cheap tubes. They sound great. 1
pedalhead Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks dsavitsk, that's reassuring. I suppose I can always start out with some cheaper ones & go crazy from there. So hard for a relative amp-dummy like me to choose between all the designs out there as I don't get the opportunity to listen to a lot of kit other than my own. With this upgrade, I'm kinda thinking I may as well just go for the most expensive I can afford, from a respected builder, in the hope that I won't have to go through the dreaded upgrade process again in a couple of years. Hmm, famous last words...
feckn_eejit Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 You could drive a large set of efficient speakers, too... that picture is bathed liberally in pure awesome... (Nelson Pass' personal "Kleinhorn/El-Pipe-O" setup, btw!)
Dusty Chalk Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 ...I can always start out with some cheaper ones & go crazy from there...This is actually your best bet. Just start cheap, it will work. It will either meet your minimum threshold for awesome, or it won't. If it does, buy moar music. If it doesn't, buy something else. Do your research though -- more expensive does not necessarily mean moar better. And after you do research, do not resign yourself to other peoples' opinions -- decide for yourself if particular tube sets are better or worse. If you can front the money, the best thing to do is to buy what tubes you can afford, and keep the ones you like, sell the rest (as "lightly used", of course). Hello, my name is Peter, and I'm a tube-oholic.
pedalhead Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Cheers Peter, wise words. Actually I recently tried my first "tube roll" on my EAR+ and my findings were completely contrary to various opinions I've read, but then I'm kinda new to this tube malarky so it could really just be me and my dumb ears. Anyway, got a rather nice email today to say my HD800s are on the way, which means I can't afford the 50% deposit on the BA for another few weeks, conveniently giving me some time to think/agonize over the amp decision a while longer .
oatmeal769 Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Posted July 28, 2009 ...I may as well just go for the most expensive I can afford, from a respected builder, in the hope that I won't have to go through the dreaded upgrade process again in a couple of years....Agreed! Therefore... I'm now the proud new owner of Zana Deux #90, and I'm really stoked! It's nice to own a handcrafted piece of art like this. Unfortunately, the bottleneck (ZERO DAC) is quite apparent. You can easily hear what the amp 'wants' to do though. So, I was going to mess around with modding it, but research shows results to be dubious at best. I saw dsavitsk's comments on the 'Lampizator' mod, and decided it's best not to polish a turd. I think I'll just save the time and money and wait for a good deal on a PS Audio DL III. Either way, I'm really happy with my Zana, and I know the pain of the expense will be long forgotten in a few years when I'm still enjoying it! I'm also very glad I took time to listen to other offerings in the same range, because now to my ears I know I made far and away the best choice.
Beefy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Congrats! Unfortunately, the bottleneck (ZERO DAC) is quite apparent. You can easily hear what the amp 'wants' to do though. So, I was going to mess around with modding it, but research shows results to be dubious at best. I saw dsavitsk's comments on the 'Lampizator' mod, and decided it's best not to polish a turd. FWIW, I sold a y1 DAC to a young bloke that had a mildly-modded zero DAC; he much preferred the sound of the y1. So to my mind, you don't have to go far or spend much money to improve on the zero.
nor_spoon Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 Congrats with your Zana Deux! It sure is a beautiful piece of amp. Both visually and sonically I have ZD #64. Enjoy your amp, and happy tube hunting if you go that route. I had a blast, learned a lot, but of course ended up with waaaay too many lol! Oh well...
jeffreyj900 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Posted July 28, 2009 I have nor_spoon's brother ZD #65.... My source is an Exemplar Denon 3910. GREAT combination. Oatmeal#'s, I do enjoy my Pico Dac with the ZD which you might consider.
veloaudio Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 Yeah if you have any interest in a pico DAC let me know. I'm getting ready to start a sell-off
oatmeal769 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Posted July 29, 2009 Nor_Spoon, I think I'll be looking for a Mullard, a Valvo, and possibly a Brimar pretty soon, have any you'd like to donat... er.. I mean sell?? Jeffrey - These later models are all relatively the same aren't they? I know he was doing some tinkering with rectification tubes on earlier ones.. As far as the Pico, can you tell me where to read about the pico, and does it compare favorably to the PS Audio? Velo, what do you think? That'd be funny if I picked that up from you as well.
veloaudio Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 I've never heard a y1 or the PS Audio. I'm picking up a pico/DAC combo though so I'm not leaving the pico family. The pico sounds very close to my Arcam CD36, which I guess it should since I believe they use the same dac chip.
veloaudio Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 I've never heard a y1 or the PS Audio. I'm picking up a pico/DAC combo though so I'm not leaving the pico family. The pico sounds very close to my Arcam CD36, which I guess it should since I believe they use the same dac chip. Sorry, meant to say I'm picking up a pico DAC/Amp combo
oatmeal769 Posted July 29, 2009 Author Report Posted July 29, 2009 You know, now that I see a picture, I heard one or two people's rigs using these Can Jam probably because they're so compact. I'm pretty sure I saw one at the mini-meet a couple weeks ago too. No offense to loyalty, but if you haven't heard one, check the PS Audio. It is an instantly noticeable improvement over the average DAC I heard. At the mini meet, we compared one AB/X with a DAC magic, and another whose name I cant recall now...( all with a Zana Deux as the reference) and we all thought it wasn't even close. Until recently I didn't think a DAC made such a huge diff, but to make these EC amps do what they're capable of, you gotta feed 'em with a high end DAC.
HeadphoneAddict Posted July 29, 2009 Report Posted July 29, 2009 I've never heard a y1 or the PS Audio. I'm picking up a pico/DAC combo though so I'm not leaving the pico family. The pico sounds very close to my Arcam CD36, which I guess it should since I believe they use the same dac chip. Asr has the Pico DAC-only and the Arcam CD36 - I wonder if he thinks the same thing?
screaming oranges Posted August 4, 2009 Report Posted August 4, 2009 I know there is another BA batch starting up end August, but is the ZDT closed forever? No more batches?
Hopstretch Posted August 4, 2009 Report Posted August 4, 2009 I know there is another BA batch starting up end August, but is the ZDT closed forever? No more batches? Doubt it. The Web site says sign up to be notified for the next run. Craig's just got his hands full.
morphsci Posted August 4, 2009 Report Posted August 4, 2009 ..... Craig's just got his hands full. Yep, he's even having problems with getting the shipping crates for the BA's built.
foo_me Posted August 4, 2009 Report Posted August 4, 2009 hopefully, he can hand deliver a couple on his trip to the norcal meet
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