New Outlaw compact subwoofer.

[Hopstretch]

Pretty nice little package. 12"*12"*14", sealed 10" woofer, 50lbs, 1000W RMS, claimed 23Hz extension, $800. If I ever get a sub for the office rig, this will be near the top of my list.

Only thing I can think of that would probably do more for less is the Epik Vanquish at $700, but that's quite a bit bigger and heavier.

[JBLoudG20]

SUNFIRE: True Subwoofer EQ 10 Signature - TS-EQ10

Velodyne MINI VEE - MiniVee MiniVee Subwoofer 2000 Watt Digital Switching Amplifier at Vanns.com | features

But the sunfire is considerably more expensive, and the Velodyne is an 8". I've heard the MiniVee and its damn impressive for its size.

[tkam]

Subwoofer Rule #1: There's no replacement for displacement.

Unless that 10" pushes a serious amount of air, I wouldn't expect a ton of volume down in the low 20hz range. Even with the 1000W amp.

[Dusty Chalk]

The Sunfire is a long-throw, so it still has displacement.

Displacement is volume, not area.

I would definitely do a Sunfire again (I used to have a True Sub Jr.).

I also prefer the continuous phase, rather than a 0/180 switch.

I don't know if the SVS that I am lusting after has a long throw driver -- that might throw me back into the Sunfire camp.

[tkam]

The Sunfire is a long-throw, so it still has displacement.

Displacement is volume, not area.

No shit, I'm aware of this, and just because they call it long-throw doesn't mean it actually is. Smaller drivers need to have a huge x-max to compete with bigger drivers.

I'd almost guarantee that the SVS driver has a higher xmax than anything sunfire has ever used.

[luvdunhill]

geez, are we going the have the "my Xmax is bigger than yours" worm-hole discussion?

edit: heh, posted at the same time as Tkam

[luvdunhill]

Smaller drivers need to have a huge x-max to compete with bigger drivers

nope. What about difference between underhung and overhung voice coils? Different topology means you cannot compare the numbers directly.

[tkam]

ok fine as a general rule of thumb for a smaller drive to have more displacement than a bigger one it needs to have a higher x-max assuming all other things equal

[kevin gilmore]

this is the right way to do this

Wilson Audio: Audio Excellence, High-quality Audio Components, Luxury Speakers

30 watts will blow the windows out...

Or build one yourself.

[luvdunhill]

ok fine as a general rule of thumb for a smaller drive to have more displacement than a bigger one it needs to have a higher x-max assuming all other things equal

Xmax is a crock. I mean, what distortion to you define? I could define Xmax = Xphysical, why not.. I'd have a ton of distortion, but hey. If you think everyone uses a 10% number, you'd be wrong... It's just like Watts... without clarification, it's rather meaningless.

edit: just found this link, good read:

http://www.aespeakers.eu/knowledge-base/the-deal-with-xmax.html

Edited June 18, 2009 by luvdunhill

[luvdunhill]

this is the right way to do this

Wilson Audio: Audio Excellence, High-quality Audio Components, Luxury Speakers

30 watts will blow the windows out...

Or build one yourself.

meh, go with this:

Eminent Technology: home

[tkam]

Xmax is a crock. I mean, what distortion to you define? I could define Xmax = Xphysical, why not.. I'd have a ton of distortion, but hey. If you think everyone uses a 10% number, you'd be wrong... It's just like Watts... without clarification, it's rather meaningless.

christ, why are you making such a big deal out of this? i was just using xmax as a parameter to make my point about displacement being key when it comes to subwoofers....

[luvdunhill]

christ, why are you making such a big deal out of this? i was just using xmax as a parameter to make my point about displacement being key when it comes to subwoofers....

because, it's a rather bogus parameter. The resulting SPL would be more appropriate comparison in my opinion.

[tkam]

eh thats almost just as bogus, unless your using an anocheic chamber and have precise measurements as to how far away the mic is. plus spl #'s change completely depending on the room used. xmax doesn't .

[luvdunhill]

eh thats almost just as bogus, unless your using an anocheic chamber and have precise measurements as to how far away the mic is. plus spl #'s change completely depending on the room used. xmax doesn't .

Not for these frequencies. 1W 1m is the standard for SPL. There simply isn't a standard for measuring Xmax, see my article above. SPL also accounts for Sd, so you can compare different diameter drivers directly.

I've measured this many, many times. Hell, microphone calibration doesn't even come into play at this sort of measurement.

I'll give it a rest.

Edited June 18, 2009 by luvdunhill

[postjack]

SVS SVS SVS!

[tkam]

[Dusty Chalk]

No shit, I'm aware of this, and just because they call it long-throw doesn't mean it actually is.

I accidentally drove one of my old True Sub Jr.'s at extremely high volumes, and saw the driver excurse, so I can tell you it actually is.

[grawk]

Todd, you haven't figured out yet that Marc is one of those annoying nerds who can't stand it when some factual detail no one cares about but him is misrepresented?

[Voltron]

[tkam]

we already have one of those

[Voltron]

Seemed more graphic, but I do miss the flies.

[n_maher]

Seemed more graphic, but I do miss the flies.

I also like the fact that he's continuously dashing the horse in the nuts. Double pain.

[falkon]

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12

This is also very highly regarded. Bigger and heavier but direct servo. Specs and frequency response claims 14Hz.

[spritzer]

this is the right way to do this

Wilson Audio: Audio Excellence, High-quality Audio Components, Luxury Speakers

30 watts will blow the windows out...

Or build one yourself.

Those fuckers are stealing my name and can't even spell Mj