Are we foruming our lives away?

[Wmcmanus]

This is something I've been reflecting on of late, although not in a terribly somber way as the title of this thread may suggest.

I guess living overseas (especially in a small place like Cayman) and being an audiophile don't really go hand in hand. The youngish ex-pats are on the beach, scuba diving, and hitting the bars. They don't have houses, they're not "settled" and don't ever expect to make Cayman their home, and they're definitely not thinking about going off-Island to some geeky headphone meet!

On the other hand, the more "settled" population in Grand Cayman is, well... settled. Settled in their ways, settled with their work lives, settled with their circle of friends, and settled in the notion that their sleepy little Island is the center of the universe. Well, at least their universe. It's not a lot unlike where I grew up in the middle of Illinois, except that now I'm surrounded by water instead of corn fields and the women all have those nice ebony and bronze skin tones instead of being pasty white like me (so at least that's a good thing).

But as I think about it, I'm pretty sure I would have become a forum junkie no matter where I was living, even if it was New York City or San Francisco where it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to even begin to attempt to categorize people. If you're an audiophile, or a car nut, or an avid watch collector, or if you're into cigars, or building computers, or camera gear, or model railroads, quilting... if you're into anything at all that is hobby oriented, you'll eventually become a forum junkie!

At the Atom Club, where I've been a member for 2.5 years (yes, I'm an accountant, so the .5 is important), it indicates the "Total time logged in" next to your avatar. At present, I've been there for 23 days, 7 hours, 35 minutes. I've got a little over 1,500 posts, not that numbers should mean anything there, or elsewhere. But I guess I'd be the typical new Supremus type of guy. A regular, and someone who identifies with the place, has been to a couple of Club-sponsored track days, has made some real life friends, etc.

It's a great forum and they're a bunch of great people... but wait a minute! Allowing for 6-8 hours of sleeping each night, that means I've already spent a full month of my life there! That's in 2.5 years and 1,500 posts. What about that other place where I've been hanging around for nearly 8 years and have 10,000+ posts and have been involved in many other ways? How many months has that consumed?

And what about the Steve Hoffman Forums, the AVS Forum, the time I've logged at Audiogon, the Big Lebowski Forum, some Canon sites, and who knows where else?

Am I alone in this regard? I mean, you guys have really put together a nice forum here. I like the neighborhood bar idea, and many of the avatars seem extremely familiar to me for some reason, so I'm suspecting that this crowd will identify with what I'm saying. I know for sure that there are a lot of people who are reading this that have been active in at least two headphone forums, so I suspect you've spent some forum time elsewhere as well...

So what's my point? Where is the question? Why does it matter? No point, really. Plus, it probably doesn't matter. But I do have a question: should I be felling a sense of pride or shame when I see that I've been logged on at the Atom Club (or name your forum) for nearly a month of my life?

In a way, it's a good thing because it takes each member's active involvement to build a community. Right? (You've all done this here, and should be proud of what you've accomplished as a group, and thus--to a certain extent--be proud as individuals, in terms of your contribution). If so, then why do I feel like a social retard every time I think about the fact that my one month "celebration" is within sight at the Atom Club?

I feel worse still, when I consider that my time spent there is merely a drop in the bucket relative to my total forum time this past decade. But the internet is pretty much the only place to find like-minded hobbyists, no matter what your hobbies might be.

An interesting paradox... what are your thoughts on the matter?

Edited June 14, 2009 by n_maher
fixed thread title

[screaming oranges]

Old adage, but I find it true: everything in moderation.

If you are actually learning, and it is not deteriorating your health nor your work nor your relationships, I see no harm in it. By nature we are social creatures, and as such always seek a community in some form or another.

[guzziguy]

the other way around, for me.

Moderation in everything?

[MoonShine]

I am sympathetic to this. I used to spend WAY to much time online. There was this golf game I was addicted to and then the various forums for my various games and hobbies (astronomy, audio, etc..). It all added up to a few things:

A gradually distant and alienated wife and kids and an expanding ass.

So I did something about it and made a conscious effort to reduce the time I spend online and increase time with my friends and family and I try to ride my bike more and go for walks and just be outside (I have taken up gardening lately). A friend told me that being outside is "good for your inner warrior" and I believe her.

I now have a better relationship with my family, I am healthier, and my life is just better and more meaningful.

I still go online but moderation (as in balance) is the key for me.

Other things are just way more important.

I seriously doubt that I will someday look back on my life and say "dang I wish I would have spent more time online".

I will say that at least this place has members that are what I consider "real" friends with each other. You guys actually know each another, have met in person and see each other from time to time at meets and such. Way cooler, more connected, and more of a community than the usual forum.

[Beefy]

I can completely relate. I go through phases where I spend unhealthy amounts of time on forums - usually when stuff is going poorly at work and I need to distract myself by buying new shiny trinkets. If I had more money, I would probably 'do' a lot more, and read/discuss a lot less......

My recent move to Canada is both a blessing and a curse. I have a lot more to occupy my time, and a lot of new things to do and see, but no IRL friends over here yet to share it with. So I seem to be trying to connect with familiar things, thus am online much more than I should be.

[Wmcmanus]

I am sympathetic to this. I used to spend WAY to much time online. There was this golf game I was addicted to and then the various forums for my various games and hobbies (astronomy, audio, etc..). It all added up to a few things:

A gradually distant and alienated wife and kids and an expanding ass.

So I did something about it and made a conscious effort to reduce the time I spend online and increase time with my friends and family and I try to ride my bike more and go for walks and just be outside (I have taken up gardening lately). A friend told me that being outside is "good for your inner warrior" and I believe her. I now have a better relationship with my family, I am healthier, and my life is just better and more meaningful.

I still go online but moderation (as in balance) is the key for me.

Other things are just way more important.

All good points, and I'm glad that moderation is working for you.

But I just wanted to clarify one thing: I didn't mean to imply that I've been thinking my life is out of balance or that spending time online has distracted me in any real way from the things I like doing in life.

First of all, I've never been married nor do I have kids. Plus, I've been semi-retired for nearly 6 years and I live in a place (Cayman) where I've pretty much seen everything and done everything there is to do. I've got a lot of friends there, but very few of them identify with my various hobbies, and thus I've quite enjoyed the time I've spent online at various places. Since I have far more time on my hands than most people do, it has never really been a "problem" for me.

I've been to a zillion audio related events in the U.S. (mostly Head-Fi meets, but other things as well) and to a couple of track days. So I've integrated my "online life" with my "real life" in that I regard many of my online friends as real life friends. Plus, it has been nice to meet and stay in contact with so many Americans!

Having lived in the Caribbean for 13 years, it's important to stay rooted with my origins, if that makes any sense. Otherwise, I'd eventually begin to feel disconnected. I feel that I've got the best of both worlds because of my friends and family back home and the time I spend on the road in the U.S. But I love the laid back Island life too, and feel totally at home in Cayman where I know everyone and everyone knows me.

I seriously doubt that I will someday look back on my life and say "dang I wish I would have spent more time online".

That sounds pretty familiar, except it is usually a quote associated with work, and to me, "foruming" is mostly fun! So I don't necessarily think of it as a HUGE time waster. I've never been a gamer, for instance, so I've not suffered those perils that you've described--you know, spending endless hours mindlessly absorded in a game with no human interaction at all.

I see forum time in an entirely different light than gaming. In fact, it's a whole lot better than watching TV!!! I've not had cable TV since my first year of law school in 1988 and at this point don't even own a TV. Instead, I get most of my news from the internet and newspapers (yes, I still read those) and from visiting people who have their TVs on. More importantly, when I'm foruming, I'm also listening to music which is far more interesting and relaxing that watching that crap that passes as "programmng" these days! About all I'd really need a TV for would be sports, full featured films, well produced mini-series like HBO puts out, and Discovery channel, History channel (and the like). But I can get most of that on BluRay these days (other than big sporting events which I watch at bars).

I will say that at least this place has members that are what I consider "real" friends with each other. You guys actually know each another, have met in person and see each other from time to time at meets and such. Way cooler, more connected, and more of a community than the usual forum.

The "you guys actually know each other" is a big clue! I can see where you would want to moderate your time online if you've never attended a meet or had the chance to get to know anyone with whom you've interacted online. For most of us, it kind of changes once there are some stories to tell...

[Currawong]

I remember a guy, who, back in 1995, spent 95 hours online non-stop, in chat (this was before forums, though not BBS's) and slept in the computer lab. I went through my addiction...15 years ago. I'm at the stage of getting tired of getting tired of getting tired of forums and chat. My situation is a little different -- I don't drink and my interests outside of computers and hi-fi are too obscure for forums, so beyond my family and work (which I enjoy) I don't go out much at all. I should get out in the sun more though I think, at least on my bicycle. I've given up caring about the number of years I've spent online (it's up to that amount now I'm sure).

I've been pondering the interesting nature of HF/HC and how similar it is to what I experienced 15 years ago in chat with groups of people. There were the chat "super users" and the "rebels" who went off and started their own chat (which frighteningly still is running today, only the same people as back then chatting now). The only thing these forums lack is more women and members hooking up and getting married.

Interesting topic.

[digger945]

I don't drink and my interests outside of computers and hi-fi are too obscure for forums, so beyond my family and work (which I enjoy) I don't go out much at all. I should get out in the sun more though I think, at least on my bicycle. I've given up caring about the number of years I've spent online (it's up to that amount now I'm sure).

Pretty much the same here. I don't care to actually know how much time I've logged online.

I've been pondering the interesting nature of HF/HC and how similar it is to what I experienced 15 years ago in chat with groups of people. There were the chat "super users" and the "rebels" who went off and started their own chat (which frighteningly still is running today, only the same people as back then chatting now). The only thing these forums lack is more women and members hooking up and getting married.

Interesting topic.

What others here and there refer to as community, I refer to as friends of the neighborhood. I guess it ties into your first quote in that we share common interests here, and lack that with friends offline. The cyber connection does get broken with the occasional meet though.

Your both right, it is an interesting topic.

Wayne is known for making us think... from time to time.

Ditto on the kids and TV stuff. Who has time for TV lol.

[Wmcmanus]

Wayne is known for making us think... from time to time.

Ditto on the kids and TV stuff. Who has time for TV lol.

I don't have any issues with the TV as such, but I just don't find it to be as interesting as so many other things that I like to do when I have "alone time" (music, full feature films, online forum discussions, and just reading as much as I can--and by that I mean books!).

With TV, for me at least--with a somewhat addictive personality which I can't really help--I just keep surfing through the channels and find that I'm constantly watching 3 things at a time. Not much of it holds my attention for long, but because there are so many channels, once I sit down I can't turn the stupid thing off for hours on end. So I decided 20 years ago that I'd be better off without it, and have never looked back since.

I just now found a Strat-o-matic forum, because I wanted to do a Google search to find pics of those old games we used to play as kids. I was telling my 11 year-old nephew about it, and he wanted to see what the game boards looked like. We used to play day and night all year long, but mostly in the summer months as soon as the sun went down and we had to be indoors. In the day, we were playing what we called "sideball" which used 14" air filled balls and sawed off baseball bats (no longer than 20" long) which you would swing with one hand, much like wiffle ball.

Anyway, the point is that we had a couple of all consuming hobbies that all of the kids in the neighborhood who were into sports were a part of. I think that in some ways, music lovers turned audiophiles are just big kids with different but very similar passions, but there aren't typically a bunch of other big kids in your neighborhood who share those interests, and that's why you end up online.

I'm not going to join any of those online Strat-o-matic leagues though! For one, I don't know much about who the best baseball players are today (or basketball, football or hockey for that matter). My knowledge about such matters dried up in the late 70s. But as scary as this may seem, I'd rather hang out with headphone geeks than middle aged online sports fanatics.

[Currawong]

Wayne is known for making us think... from time to time.

I think making people think is a worth ideal. Most would would rather die than think, as Mark Twain put it. Most thinking is just people repeating other people's ideas they've taken on as their own.

I might also add, I don't value society's opinions about what is well-used time or a waste of time. I would consider I wasted a lot of time avoiding dealing with my wife, which is a waste, but some of it was spent learning (about myself!) and meeting people who became real-life friends down the track.

[Iron_Dreamer]

I guess what it comes down to is whether or not YOU feel that "foruming" is the best use of your time at any given moment. And as others have noted, having the real-life connection makes forums like this a lot more relevant, at least for me.

Unless you're Jacob, there is going to be a limit to how much of anything produces meaningful returns. I'm pretty sure I've exceeded that limit from time to time, but that is almost a necessary evil in the process of finding proper balance. I'm pretty sure that those nights I blew through in college, trying to see how many sections of HF I could have the most recent post in concurrently sure as hell could have been better spent doing something better.

[Wmcmanus]

I'm pretty sure that those nights I blew through in college, trying to see how many sections of HF I could have the most recent post in concurrently sure as hell could have been better spent doing something better.

You actually did that? You must have been really bored that night.

It's funny, because I've never really felt "guilty" as such about spending my time the way I've wanted. Although I've had a couple of girlfriends, including the present one, who've said "You and that computer..." or have wondered "How much can you possibly write about headphones?"

I guess I'm more interested in audio related topics than my other hobbies because I've never really questioned my involvement at Head-Fi or other audio sites, but I'm really shocked when I think about how much time I've spent at a car site--despite that fact that it's a small fraction of the time I've spent at audio sites, and the fact that I've learned things there that will save me money and possibly even save my life (in terms of driving tips and the importance of fireproof race suits, etc). Whereas the car guys I know would probably feel just as odd hanging out in places like this.

[Spiug31]

I guess what it comes down to is whether or not YOU feel that "foruming" is the best use of your time at any given moment. And as others have noted, having the real-life connection makes forums like this a lot more relevant, at least for me.

and looking in from the flipside of that, it is the lack of ability to maintain a connection by other means that makes the forum attractive to me. It provides a means of communication/society with fewer strings attached (easy to dip into without requiring immediate response or complex interraction unless choosing to do so) and less requirement for memory recall thanks to the search function .

[screaming oranges]

On the topic of "thinking": I've always wondered how, for example, if I died, any of my "online only" friends would find out. There is another forum I visit where I have never physically met anyone (few there have). It is a close group with video-gaming as the main interest, but it is more of a "chill" place than videogames, really. I suppose that some here would have ways of finding out what happened to a member that suddenly vanished but, for the most part, there are many that can vanish and none would know what happened to that person.

I guess the returns to serve its original purpose.

[GPH]

Great topic!

What I like about this particular hobby is the online/offline interaction with meets, and being able to personify the people you talk with. Also, for some reason, I have the preconceived notion that people who care so much about music must be good people and bon vivants in real life too, which has been the case most of the time.

About the wasting time part, ever tried discussing headphones and audio with your girlfriend or your friends? I've tried, but the conversations were short-lived and not particularly interesting. I see forum posting as a complement to real life, filling holes for geeky stuff that most people don't care about. Being passionate about something is good IMO, as long as you don't alienate your close friends and try to live a balanced life. It's all about moderation like someone said earlier.

[tyrion]

Yes. I'm done.

[ingwe]

Where else would I, could I, discuss pie? Apple pie, blueberry pie, rhubarb pie, key lime pie, boysenberry pie...

[screaming oranges]

Bye Mike! Nice knowing you.

Also, I still think cheesecake is more akin to pies than cake. But what do I know? I'm just the 300-pound gorilla in the room.

are there dedicated pie forums? i keep thinking about resurrecting the bread-case idea...

There used to be a thread at that videogame site dedicated to all things pie. It was an amazing thread. Alas, it was closed because of cake vs pie fights.

[spritzer]

Cheese cake would be more in line with cream cakes and such rather then normal cakes or pies. What do I know though... I'm just a baker.

As for the OT, I'm spending a lot less time then I did and the hobby has also changed for me.

[MoonShine]

I made my first ever pie weekend before last. Rhubarb pie from scratch.

Came out great, was yummy.

[JBLoudG20]

We have a bunch of rhubarb growing in the side yard. My grandmother makes the pie, but im on the fence about it.

[luvdunhill]

I'd love to join a forum about (looks around for nate) fora.

[malldian]

dbl

[malldian]

I remember a guy, who, back in 1995, spent 95 hours online non-stop, in chat (this was before forums, though not BBS's) and slept in the computer lab. I went through my addiction...15 years ago. I'm at the stage of getting tired of getting tired of getting tired of forums and chat. My situation is a little different -- I don't drink and my interests outside of computers and hi-fi are too obscure for forums, so beyond my family and work (which I enjoy) I don't go out much at all. I should get out in the sun more though I think, at least on my bicycle. I've given up caring about the number of years I've spent online (it's up to that amount now I'm sure).

Things like that exist?

[MoonShine]

I'd love to join a forum about (looks around for nate) fora.

A phlebotomy of fora?