Playback Designs

[deepak]

For those of us to lazy to buy a copy and to impatient to wait what's the response in a nutshell? I'm guessing it's on the lines of "you guys don't know how to measure stuff".

the response was, essentially, "it's supposed to do that because it's magical, and you can't measure magic."

Yeah basically.

[atothex]

That's weird and a bit shady-sounding...

[cetoole]

That's weird and a bit shady-sounding...

How is that different from most hifi?

[Dreadhead]

Yeah basically.

Ah one of the we know what you want, never mind being true to the original signal we'll do some wild bullshit with dithering and noise floor and make it sound moar better. Also sounds like they don't do brickwall filtering so they probably do the minmum phase filter to get rid of pre-ring in the digital signal. That's why I like technically accurate it's so much easier to establish than this mumbo-jumbo.

How is that different from most hifi?

QFT. This is a hobby with the Blackbody.

[morphsci]

Ah one of the we know what you want, never mind being true to the original signal we'll do some wild bullshit with dithering and noise floor and make it sound moar better. Also sounds like they don't do brickwall filtering so they probably do the minmum phase filter to get rid of pre-ring in the digital signal. That's why I like technically accurate it's so much easier to establish than this mumbo-jumbo.

QFT. This is a hobby with the Blackbody.

You may want to read the measurements and Koch's response before you lump him in with the snake oil boys. He does have a little experience in digital audio. What he said, at least to me, makes theoretical sense. If you optimize your algorithm for the reproduction of acoustic signals that are a complex mixture of tones and then measure with a single pure signal you may not be measuring it properly. However, I do not see how that explains the specific measurement anomalies that JA found in this case. That could also be because I do not have Koch's expertise in the field or it could be because he has a vested interest in the product, or both. That is why I found his response interesting.

[Dreadhead]

You may want to read the measurements and Koch's response before you lump him in with the snake oil boys. He does have a little experience in digital audio. What he said, at least to me, makes theoretical sense. If you optimize your algorithm for the reproduction of acoustic signals that are a complex mixture of tones and then measure with a single pure signal you may not be measuring it properly. However, I do not see how that explains the specific measurement anomalies that JA found in this case. That could also be because I do not have Koch's expertise in the field or it could be because he has a vested interest in the product, or both. That is why I found his response interesting.

I guess I came off a bit strong (I have a tendency). I'm not actually saying what he's doing is snake oil. If it is the dither thing I'm talking about then it is psychoacoustics which is definitely not snake oil, just not my thing. As far as optimizing a system for complex signal vs a measured signal as long as the system is linear there is absolutely no difference. The non-linearities are what JA is essentially measuring so bad measurements that people mention above point to dithering/noise shaping because nonlinearity will not give a wide banded noise floor on a single input frequency. To be honest the dithered signal may actually sound better, it's reasonably common trick in mastering to add some noise floor to music, apparently it makes it sound more "real".

Filburt and I have had several discussions about testing for phase performance and/or transient intermodulation distortion which are interesting and should capture sound-staging and complex non-linear effects from real music.

On another note I think the quote in your sig. is rather out of context: "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." Tells a very different more Einstein consistent story. I was wondering after reading your replies so I went and looked it up.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Dreadhead

[Hopstretch]

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Edited January 26, 2010 by Hopstretch

[morphsci]

On another note I think the quote in your sig. is rather out of context: "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand." Tells a very different more Einstein consistent story.

What can I say, I'm used to dealing with editors of scientific journals. I do not think the longer quote tells a different story, just makes it clearer for those who may not have Einstein's imagination. I actually like the shorter quote because it lets the reader fill in the next part for themselves. However, if I used this signature in other places I would probably use the longer quote.

I do agree with you that there does appear to be something being added to the signal and the channel imbalance does definitely seem to be a flaw not a feature.

Edit: Thanks for posting the response Stretch. You Da Man.

[The Monkey]

I like it when people challenge JA, even if they're wrong.

[mypasswordis]

i'm sure the channel imbalance is because everybody has a strong ear and a weak ear. that's the ticket.

Funny you should mention that. I sincerely believe my left ear is more sensitive to lower frequencies and my right ear is more sensitive to higher frequencies. I may be going down the path of insanity or voodoo or both...