Ye Macce Threade

[morphsci]

How certain are we about this timetable?

[TMoney]

35 minutes ago, morphsci said:

How certain are we about this timetable?

Very. The ARM based stuff is likely to come in on the low end, like it has on the Windows side. It is not a replacement for the big boy x86 processors (yet).

[grawk]

https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/11/22/arm-supercomputer-captures-the-energy-efficiency-crown/

ARM doesn't have to be low end, and apple's put quite a bit of effort into the platform...GPUs can easily do the heavy lifting.

[morphsci]

2 hours ago, TMoney said:

Very. The ARM based stuff is likely to come in on the low end, like it has on the Windows side. It is not a replacement for the big boy x86 processors (yet).

Yeah, pardon me if I beg off on that one but using Microsoft to predict what Apple will do hasn’t really worked that well in the past.

16 minutes ago, grawk said:

https://www.nextplatform.com/2019/11/22/arm-supercomputer-captures-the-energy-efficiency-crown/

ARM doesn't have to be low end, and apple's put quite a bit of effort into the platform...GPUs can easily do the heavy lifting.

Agreed. 

[Dusty Chalk]

Anyone remember the PowerPC processors?  I know, I'm old.

[Grahame]

How about Motorola 68000's, "Youngster"?

[blessingx]

Don’t see a good place to stick this under speakers so placing here. 

Christopher Stringer worked on many of Apple’s biggest hits. Now, he’s getting ready to release a new series of smart speakers that could compete with Apple HomePod and Sonos. 
https://www.fastcompany.com/90508816/ex-apple-designer-to-launch-a-product-that-competes-with-apple-itself?partner=rss&utm_campaign=rss+fastcompany&utm_content=rss&utm_medium=feed&utm_source=rss 

[Torpedo]

Thanks for the replies. If grapevine is right it'd take more than 8 months a new iMac to be released, and if it's released it'd be a whole new architecture which might be good, or rather bad until refined.

I don't do video editing, nor heavy images processing, although I might occasionally play some racing or flight simulator game which I haven't done in 10 years. Most of my computer use is light stuff in the streaming TV, text processing, audio processing, net surfing, filesharing... My plan is getting a 27" iMac with 6-core i5 3.7GHz (9th gen), 8GB (upgrading to 3rd party RAM would be considered), 1TB SSD, Radeon Pro 580X. I might consider upgrading the graphic card to VEGA or having the i9 installed, but I don't think any of those is worth the expense for me. As a matter of fact I'm assuming that such device would be a waste, so a much cheaper 8th gen processor with the lower Radeon Pro 570 would be equally good, but possibly more reliable for producing less heat. Any opinions and advice?

[ironbut]

I got the Pro Vega 48 only because it was reported that it ran cooler.

Maybe that's been disproven but that's the only reason I paid for it.

There have been none of the thermal throttling issues reported on earlier products. 

This machine runs much cooler and quieter than my Mac Pro's. The fan noise was one of my main issues with my cheese grater.

The only times I've heard the fan on this one has been when an app crashed and froze and when installing some apps. 

I'm using OWC's memory cards and they seem fine. The price on them has is almost half of what it was a year ago when I bought my 64G.

 

[HiWire]

On 5/27/2020 at 3:10 AM, Torpedo said:

Thanks for the replies. If grapevine is right it'd take more than 8 months a new iMac to be released, and if it's released it'd be a whole new architecture which might be good, or rather bad until refined.

I don't do video editing, nor heavy images processing, although I might occasionally play some racing or flight simulator game which I haven't done in 10 years. Most of my computer use is light stuff in the streaming TV, text processing, audio processing, net surfing, filesharing... My plan is getting a 27" iMac with 6-core i5 3.7GHz (9th gen), 8GB (upgrading to 3rd party RAM would be considered), 1TB SSD, Radeon Pro 580X. I might consider upgrading the graphic card to VEGA or having the i9 installed, but I don't think any of those is worth the expense for me. As a matter of fact I'm assuming that such device would be a waste, so a much cheaper 8th gen processor with the lower Radeon Pro 570 would be equally good, but possibly more reliable for producing less heat. Any opinions and advice?

I would look at getting a refurbished iMac directly from Apple to save a bit of money. Most of the Macs in my office are refurbished and they run without issues – Apple gives you the same 1-year warranty (here in North America) as a new Mac and I believe you can get AppleCare (expensive) if you want an extended warranty.

In my opinion, some of the current Apple computers are handicapped due to Apple's refresh cycle or the manufacturing constraints of their suppliers – e.g., the AMD Radeon Pro 570 and 580X are actually old product and quite a way behind the state of the art, especially at the prices Apple is charging. The Vega is an expensive option and at this point it is also an old architecture. The Radeon Pro 5300M and 5500M in the 16" MacBook Pro are two generations newer (going from AMD Polaris to Navi) and perform like you would expect midrange mobile graphic processors to do in 2020.

Check out AMD's upcoming 5600M and 5700M's specs to see what the new iMac GPUs might look like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_RX_5000_series#Mobile

Dell's new mass-market gaming laptop has the Radeon RX 5600M (6GB) and you can check out its performance (definitely behind the Nvidia 2060) here: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dell-g5-15-se-5505-amd-smartshift

Perfectly adequate, but nothing revolutionary and running hot in a small enclosure.

So, in my opinion, it would be a good idea to wait until the refresh, or buy a current or used iMac at a decent discount if possible, because they aren't worth what Apple is charging.

Intel's current 10th-gen (Comet Lake) CPUs aren't a huge jump from 9th-gen, but Intel added more cores in the flagship CPUs and the Core i5-10600 has 12 threads rather than 6 because Intel brought hyperthreading back (your performance mileage may vary) as well as increased cache, going from 9MB to 12MB. There is a good chance that Apple will also include Wi-Fi 6, which will benefit you in the long run.

Regarding heat – if the newer processors can get the work done faster, they'll spend less time at max power. If you're doing a long gaming session, however, you'd want minimal throttling and excellent heat management without too much noise – we'll have to see if the new iMacs can do that. I think they will definitely have a lot more graphic power than the current iMacs, but at a price.

The other possibility is that Apple enlarges the display in the current 21" iMac chassis to the rumored 23", which might give you a middle ground choice. The 21" iMac has typically been a better value than the 27", but Apple has always handicapped it with lesser hardware. That being said, the 27" 5K displays in the current iMacs are fantastic and they do make the computers seem like a better deal compared to most PC monitors.

Edited June 9, 2020 by HiWire

[Torpedo]

Looks like Apple is going to release a new iMac

Quote

WWDC is shaping up to see some significant Mac news, starting with word earlier today that Apple will be beginning its shift to its own Arm-based processors, and now leaker Sonny Dickson is claiming that Apple will be introducing a redesigned iMac at the event.

The WWDC is going to be later this month as an online event. Would that explain that iMac orders as of today in Spain won't be delivered until early July? I'm kind of waiting.

[HiWire]

Hard to say. The lockdown affected a lot of the supply chain, so it's possible that shipments of the old iMacs have been held up as well.

[ironbut]

One thing that I mentioned back when I bought my iMac (July 2019) is it doesn't have the T2 security chip. 

I was considering an iMac Pro but the cost and the fact that it has the T2 chip made up my mind against it.

The chip is supposed to have some minor performance advantages IIRC, but the big drawback for me is it requires factory upgrades of the processor and the boot drive.

Of course, upgrading those aren't as easy in the iMac's. OWC considers them to be moderate to difficult for users to upgrade, but upgrades and repairs are important to me.

Just sayin' (the redesigned iMac will almost certainly include the T2)

Edited June 11, 2020 by ironbut

[HiWire]

Yes, I sometimes wonder what really goes on in the back of the Apple Store. I looked up the battery replacement procedure (suggested by OWC) for my MacBook and it was horrific – you have to disassemble almost the entire computer and use solvent to remove the glue. 😦

[Angst]

They don't do a lot of repair work in the back. The Apple store will try really hard to convince you that it's too expensive to repair when you could get a new MacBook for a few more dollars. And if you don't go for that, they are paid by the hour.

Products are designed for compact dimensions and economical manufacturing, not serviceability. More fun to be a stockholder than a customer.

 

[HiWire]

True enough. I've opened quite a few Macs, but none of the models after 2016. Not much point when everything is glued and soldered.

Apple just announced a Radeon Pro 5600M 8GB HBM2 upgrade ($800 USD) for the 16-inch MacBook Pro – they are claiming up to 75% increased performance from the 5500M, which makes you think the 5500M was weak sauce. Not cheap, though. They'll probably offer the 5600M in the next iMac refresh.

Edited June 15, 2020 by HiWire

[TMoney]

So they are really transitioning the entire mac lineup to ARM away from x86. WOW. I'll have my popcorn ready. What a gamble.

[Grahame]

Indeed.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21295475/apple-mac-processors-arm-silicon-chips-wwdc-2020

[blessingx]

My goal is to live through two more CPU-architecture transitions! 

And David Lynch is not going to be happy with the PiP iPhone functionality. Looking forward to PiPiP. 

[ironbut]

I was kinda hoping for some hardware today, but the future of Apple Silicone is promising and makes a lot of sense.

It will take a major transition but it would be cool if they can get it all under control in less than 5 years.

I'm interested to see how all the changes in Big Sur will pan out in the real world.

I'm still on Mojave and happy with it so skipping over Catalina (or even BS) wouldn't kill me. 

[blessingx]

I wonder how well Spatial Audio will work on the AirPod(s) Pros? 

[Hopstretch]

There was a lot of good stuff in there on the usability front. Sounds like we'll get a last x86 iMac this year, going to be a bit of a dilemma whether to buy.

[HiWire]

I wonder if Spatial Audio will work at all on 3rd-party products. I'm guessing the answer is "no" for now.

I was thinking the same thing about x86... I think I'll get the last Intel Mac (7nm?) unless it's a total disaster. My home computer will be 9 years old soon.

I'm also running Mojave and I don't want to install Catalina (if at all) for a while. It's still full of bugs. I just caught that everyone is going to be calling the latest macOS BS. Maybe they have a finely-developed sense of irony.

The A12Z in the Developer Mac Mini doesn't sound that impressive. I was hoping to start with an A13 at least.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A13

I'm not a Swift programmer, but I thought a lot of Apple apps ran at a high level of abstraction, so there shouldn't be a lot of machine-code level optimization required for stuff that isn't running down to the metal (like games and graphic programs). I hope Rosetta 2 runs old apps smoothly and reliably like they showed in the demo.

Edited June 22, 2020 by HiWire

[morphsci]

Well this was the first Apple event that described revolutionary rather than evolutionary changes since they switched to Intel based architecture, IMHO. I was probably most excited about the virtualizations, but I am weird that way. My next personal Apple Mac will be one using the ARM chips.
 

The only machine that I have that runs Catalina is my Mac mini that runs my audio streaming. It has run perfectly but it came that way. I will be updating my spare laptop in the next couple of weeks, so we will see how that runs. Kind of nice having a spare system to experiment with.

[Torpedo]

Damn, to wait or not to wait, that is the question