JH Audio stuffs

[boomana]

Mike, I'm thinking of driving up to get mine only due to potential fit issues, which I had with the UE11s. If I have a problem, I'd rather be there and have it seen right then rather than trying to describe it in back-and-forth emails and sending things and getting things and trying to describe in email again and sending and receiving and...

I think yours will be ready before mine, though, but if you wanted to road trip with me, that could be fun.

[catscratch]

I'm still waiting for more feedback on these. I was dead set on getting the ES3x but now I'm going to wait for impressions from people that have both the ES3x and JH13. In the meanwhile I'm just sitting back and staring incredulously at the 30+ page appreciation thread for a product that isn't even out yet.

Anyone else find the very idea of appreciation threads within the context of the current state of HF destructive? It's all very fine to have an appreciation thread when you have a solid poster base of rational people, but when you have a forum full of consumerist trolls who somehow identify themselves based on what gear they have and now many posts are under their belts, it starts to breed even more rampant fanboyism.

Yeah, I own lots of Westones. I guess by HF protocol I should then think along the lines of this: Down with Shures! Down with Ultimate Ears! Quick, run to the trenches of Westone appreciation threads and let's all start lobbing trolling grenades at the trench of Phonak owners, after all their IEMs are less expensive than ours and they're easy pickings! But watch out for the JH mechanized divisions, their $1100 IEMs are even more expensive, and we have to make even more noise or everyone else will think we're second rate! I mean, they have twice the drivers and are even more expensive, and that makes them better people! Or maybe I should jump over to the JH side - this could really increase my sense of self-worth!

[boomana]

Well, I've participated in that thread, so I suppose I'm part of that machine. I do find it ridiculous to call it an appreciation thread, especially since the op hasn't even heard the universals. I've since learned he's a high school student, so that explains a lot. btw, Justin has the ES3X and is in line for the JH13, as far as I know, so that's one person who may eventually be able to answer your questions.

[tyrion]

Mike, I'm thinking of driving up to get mine only due to potential fit issues, which I had with the UE11s. If I have a problem, I'd rather be there and have it seen right then rather than trying to describe it in back-and-forth emails and sending things and getting things and trying to describe in email again and sending and receiving and...

I think yours will be ready before mine, though, but if you wanted to road trip with me, that could be fun.

This is possible. I have a bad week next week with a day trip to Tallahassee on Tuesday and one to Pensacola on Thursday. I think I leave at 5:45 am and return at 10:30 pm so driving spending the next day in a car is not a pleasant prospect, with the exception of you being there, of course. If I did do this, I would want to leave pretty early so I can get back to the office in the afternoon.

Edited June 18, 2009 by tyrion

[guzziguy]

I think I leave at 5:45 am and return at 10:30 pm so driving spending the next day in a car is not a pleasant prospect, with the exception of you being there, of course.

Oops.

[boomana]

I'm not sure when mine will be ready (design not yet finalized), you might not want to wait. I'll see what I can find out, and get back with you.

[tyrion]

Oops.

FIFM

I'm not sure when mine will be ready (design not yet finalized), you might not want to wait. I'll see what I can find out, and get back with you.

I'm hoping there is a chance mine are shipped Thursday, in which case I have them Friday. I will call on Wednesday. If both of ours are ready Friday, then a road trip may be in order.

[boomana]

We aren't talking this Friday, are we? I know mine won't be ready by then. Next Friday? Hopefully, but I'd be talking about the following Tuesday or Wednesday for a roadtrip.

[Edwood]

I have the ES3X and will be getting the JH13 soon.

I listened to the JH13 demo at CanJam and compared it to my ES3X. The JH13 sounded better in just about every way to me, the difference was not subtle, so it was easy to hear the differences in even meet conditions.

[tyrion]

We aren't talking this Friday, are we? I know mine won't be ready by then. Next Friday? Hopefully, but I'd be talking about the following Tuesday or Wednesday for a roadtrip.

Friday, next week. I thought they wouldn't be done until the end of next week. If mine are ready earlier, then I will just wait for them to arrive the next day. If I have fit issues, I will drive up there when it's convenient.

[Augsburger]

I have the ES3X and will be getting the JH13 soon.

I listened to the JH13 demo at CanJam and compared it to my ES3X. The JH13 sounded better in just about every way to me, the difference was not subtle, so it was easy to hear the differences in even meet conditions.

X2 up until Can Jam I was very satisfied with my UE Triple Fi Pro Threes but as Edwood said the JH pro 13s sounded better in every way.

[catscratch]

I have the ES3X and will be getting the JH13 soon.

I listened to the JH13 demo at CanJam and compared it to my ES3X. The JH13 sounded better in just about every way to me, the difference was not subtle, so it was easy to hear the differences in even meet conditions.

Thanks, I really do look forward to your impressions of the full version. AFAIK you, Justin, and Larry all have the ES3x and will be getting the JH13, and I hope digihead won't be able to resist either since I have found his impressions to be pretty spot-on thus far.

[Deadneddz]

I'm still waiting for more feedback on these. I was dead set on getting the ES3x but now I'm going to wait for impressions from people that have both the ES3x and JH13.

Catscratch,

I own the UE-11s and ES3X. I also got to listen to(shortly) both the JH11 and JH13 at Canjam. I'm not exactly sure what your sonic preferences are, but I do know from reading some of your posts that you do not like any sort of midrange/upper midrange etch. From my experience, the UE-11s, Westone ES3x the JH13 have one thing in common, that is they are very well balanced and remarkably neutral in music reproduction.

Here are some comparision comments on the various phones straight out of a 5.5g ipod. I'll skip the basic sound characteristics and just focus on comparision between the phones.

The Westone ES3X has a slightly treble shy tonal balance. Combine this with less transparency and the vocals now sound more foward than with the UE-11s. I believe that the vocals sound more foward due to a couple reasons. Although all the detail is present across the spectrum just like the UE-11s, the slightly deficient treble quantity allows me to hear more midrange detail. (but this does not mean its midrange HAS more detail).

The UE-11 is a better portrayer of space. Its more transparent, more refined and notes over the UE-11s are more brightly lit. Its sense of "relaxed clarity" is outstanding. But it is not deficient tonally at any end of the spectrum.

I had a short listen to the JH13, which i unplugged from his P-51/ipod setup to plug into my ipod hp out. The good thing about listening to custom monitors(universal versions) at a meet is the sound isolation that they offer. This allowed me to get a better grip on its sound signature than open headphones in a noisy room. All I can say from a short listen is that the JH13 is much more similar to the UE-11s. What I heard is a more refined version of the UE-11. The neutrality and even-tonal balance is still there. This makes sense, as he did design the UE-11s.

My preferences heavily favor the UE-11 over the ES3X and the JH-13 is a further step beyond the UE-11.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Catscratch,

I own the UE-11s and ES3X. I also got to listen to(shortly) both the JH11 and JH13 at Canjam. I'm not exactly sure what your sonic preferences are, but I do know from reading some of your posts that you do not like any sort of midrange/upper midrange etch. From my experience, the UE-11s, Westone ES3x the JH13 have one thing in common, that is they are very well balanced and remarkably neutral in music reproduction.

Here are some comparision comments on the various phones straight out of a 5.5g ipod. I'll skip the basic sound characteristics and just focus on comparision between the phones.

The Westone ES3X has a slightly treble shy tonal balance. Combine this with less transparency and the vocals now sound more foward than with the UE-11s. I believe that the vocals sound more foward due to a couple reasons. Although all the detail is present across the spectrum just like the UE-11s, the slightly deficient treble quantity allows me to hear more midrange detail. (but this does not mean its midrange HAS more detail).

The UE-11 is a better portrayer of space. Its more transparent, more refined and notes over the UE-11s are more brightly lit. Its sense of "relaxed clarity" is outstanding. But it is not deficient tonally at any end of the spectrum.

I had a short listen to the JH13, which i unplugged from his P-51/ipod setup to plug into my ipod hp out. The good thing about listening to custom monitors(universal versions) at a meet is the sound isolation that they offer. This allowed me to get a better grip on its sound signature than open headphones in a noisy room. All I can say from a short listen is that the JH13 is much more similar to the UE-11s. What I heard is a more refined version of the UE-11. The neutrality and even-tonal balance is still there. This makes sense, as he did design the UE-11s.

My preferences heavily favor the UE-11 over the ES3X and the JH-13 is a further step beyond the UE-11.

This is what I wrote in my notes about 2PM Thursday about the UE 11Pro, which I received on Wednesday. This is in no way a full review, but just my notes as I get used to them with my first impressions, to be used in my review later:

Initial impressions are the UE 11Pro are very good. They seemed to need about an hour of music running through them when they were out of the box, to loosen things up and wake up the sound, so if that was a bit of necessary "burn-in" it was a very short time. They have a bit of tipped up bass and treble vs my ES3X, and a slightly more distant position in the audience at around the 5th-10th row vs 1st row with the ES3X. The mids are not quite as rich and vivid as the ES3X, but the bass is like having a subwoofer in the ears. There is a slight boost of the sparkle in the highs, but without inviting sibilance. The UE11Pro do beat my Livewires, SE530 in a custom shell, and Freq Show music makers 3-way customs - but I don't have my JH 13Pro to compare to yet.

At this early stage it's not so much an question of 'which is better' vs the ES3X as it is the 'differences in sound' may appeal to different tastes. I actually prefer both types of sound very much. I can now see why many people like to have both the UE 10Pro and the UE 11Pro. The ES3X remind me a bit of my Sennheiser HD800, and the UE 11 Pro remind me of my re-cabled and woodied Denon D2000/D5000 (not markl modded) - both excellent full size headphones. In this case, while the sound signature and frequency balance may be similar between the UE and Denon, the UE 11Pro still beat the Denon for detail, speed and transparency (while not sounding like a closed can). I've only had a few hours of listening via Macbook > Pico DAC > ALO Amphora (and iPhone 3G), so those are just some initial impressions.

So, I think the ES3X are still an excellent IEM, and at this point I cannot pick one ahead of the other as being "better" than the other. I have spent 4 months with the ES3X and one day with the UE 11Pro, so I lean a little towards the fresh clean open vocals and mids of the ES3X right now. From what I recall, the vocals in the JH13Pro demos were much more present than in the UE11Pro, and closer to the ES3X. We'll see when the finished product arrives if that holds true. I plan to do a review with all three customs after I have spent a bit of time with all of them.

[Edwood]

I prefer the UE11's soundstage over the ES3X. But the UE11's frequency response? Not so much.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I prefer the UE11's soundstage over the ES3X. But the UE11's frequency response? Not so much.

Do you mean imaging? Instrument placement? Distance from the stage? Size in all directions? All of the above?

The ES3X seems a little more vivid and transparent with a front row seat - the UE11Pro seems a little more distant and spread out. Yet, the ES3X never sound like space is cramped or shallow at all, just that you are closer to the action. Whereas with something like the Grado RS-1, I feel closer to the action but the stage depth is also shallower.

I think it may be the UE11Pro's frequency response (smiley face shape) that is responsible for some of the listener's increased distance or position away from the stage. I want to see if this is of any benefit with classical music or not. What part of the frequency response are you not so happy with? For me the extra bass is nice at times, but sometimes with some music there is a less-detailed bass cloud that rears it's head, while at other times the bass is clear and detailed and fast (really depending on the recording). Infected Mushroom benefits a lot with the throbbing deep powerful bass - you can feel it in your teeth (and almost in your chest - psychoacoustics or something).

I really wish I had been able to get a good seal with the JH demos to have a better idea of what the bass would be like, but I enjoyed the rest of the sound and look forward to seeing how the sound turns out as a whole. I suspect it will be different from the ES3X and the UE11Pro, but maybe a mix of the two sounds.

[Edwood]

The soundstage's shape and imaging. Depth and width.

The ES3X is more up front and wide, but suffers from the typical headphoney "two blobs" effect.

I got a decent seal with the demo JH13 at CanJam. Bass is fantastic as far as I heard. Deep and powerful, but nowhere near the excessive boominess of the UE11 in comparison. The UE11 just sounds muddy in comparison, to even the ES3X.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Hmmm, no two blobs here.

[Edwood]

I mean relatively speaking. I'm pretty spoiled by the R10's seamless, holographic soundstage.

[HeadphoneAddict]

I mean relatively speaking. I'm pretty spoiled by the R10's seamless, holographic soundstage.

Okay, I can understand that comparison - in my ES3X review I mentioned that they can't achieve the soundstage of a full size can, in a similar way that full size cans can't soundstage like speakers. I just don't have the two blobs, but I do have the miniature stage thing going, which does sometimes extend out of head.

[Deadneddz]

Okay, I can understand that comparison - in my ES3X review I mentioned that they can't achieve the soundstage of a full size can, in a similar way that full size cans can't soundstage like speakers. I just don't have the two blobs, but I do have the miniature stage thing going, which does sometimes extend out of head.

If you talking about sound localization in regards to distance of sounds in relation to the listener, then I think you mean headstage.

[Dusty Chalk]

They can soundstage like speakers, you just need a binaural recording.

[Edwood]

Or a $2600 Black Box of awesome

[pfillion]

I have just received my sales receipt from Jerry and my pair will be shipped this week.

[nnotis]

Well, I just payed my $1000 entry fee into this club. At the worst, these will be a small upgrade from my UE-10s. But I do hope they turn out to be among the best headphones of any kind. If so, $1100 is a steal.