The Monkey Posted May 9, 2009 Report Posted May 9, 2009 The PS Audio PerfectWave DAC is out: PerfectWave DAC : Product Details | PS Audio The DAC is 2995, but PS Audio is offering a trade-in until the end of May. If I understand correctly, send in your DAC and you will receive up to $1000 off (DAC trade-in value appears to be based on MSRP). Brings the unit to $1995. I'm still trying to piece together what exactly this thing does. Is this just a big gizmo, or does it seem like it could be something that sounds good?
Hopstretch Posted May 9, 2009 Report Posted May 9, 2009 Well, it's a flexible and extremely tunable DAC at minimum. Then you can add a separate transport and a separate music server if you choose. I think it's a very interesting and potentially mold-breaking product. But how will it sound?
morphsci Posted May 9, 2009 Report Posted May 9, 2009 Like the Chorus of a million angels shills Head-Fiers. FTFY
AlanY Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 Interesting that they're also on the minimum phase bandwagon, like Ayre. The WM8741 is a good choice of DAC. Looks like a nice unit.
kevin gilmore Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 They are missing the boat again. Needs hdmi passthru. Needs 5.1 surround decoding. Needs 5.1 channels of balanced output. Then double the price and they might have something to compete for the future.
The Monkey Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Posted May 10, 2009 Still, for $2k it seems pretty cool.
Filburt Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 WM8741 is OK. It isn't what I would associate with high performance outside the scope of voltage-output dacs, but it is easier to use than something like a PCM1792 in terms of getting satisfactory performance. Aside from ease of implementation, I imagine they also used the 8741 because they could tout these filter modes which are part of the 8741 design (though they omit mention of this). You can see they used the same names for each as is in the datasheet. Most of this is just kind of bizarre marketing babble, such as how it's "stunning" that taking the data directly to the WM8741 is going to sound better than running it through the SRC4192 first even though they went through the trouble to emphasize the superiority of the filters the 8741 offers. Oh well. The touch screen and programmability is cool.
Dusty Chalk Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 They are missing the boat again. Needs hdmi passthru. Needs 5.1 surround decoding. Needs 5.1 channels of balanced output. Then double the price and they might have something to compete for the future.Dude, stereo's the future, surround is a niche market. (Admittedly, a niche market I may well be a part of, but a niche market all the same.) I like your ideas, and wish to subscribe to your newsletter, but I think what you're describing is a pre-pro, not a DAC.
kevin gilmore Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 But they advertise it as being the only component necessary between the source and the power amp. That makes it a preamp like thing. surround sound is clearly the future when it comes to integrated audio/video stuff. Like it or not, most people only have the room for one man cave, and everything has to go into that one room. They have done all the hard work (user interface et all) including the hdmi stuff, might as well finish the job.
aardvark baguette Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 ps audio just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
aardvark baguette Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 counter clockwise? its more having to do with the Y axis only.
Dusty Chalk Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 But they advertise it as being the only component necessary between the source and the power amp. That makes it a preamp like thing. surround sound is clearly the future when it comes to integrated audio/video stuff. Like it or not, most people only have the room for one man cave, and everything has to go into that one room. They have done all the hard work (user interface et all) including the hdmi stuff, might as well finish the job.They're not using HDMI for HDMI. From the quick-start guide (PDF):DIGITAL INPUTS ... The PWD uses an HDMI cable to transfer I^2S data. This data can only be used with another compatible PS Audio component, such as the PerfectWave transport, and will not work in other HDMI equipment as the I^2S format incorporated does not comply with the HDMI standards. The HDMI connector and cable were chosen to carry the I^2S signal because of their superior high-speed data transmission capabilities for multiple clocks and data lines.
kevin gilmore Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 Did not see that. Which means it is completely useless unless you buy both pieces as there is no other way to get pure dsd into the dac. Makes it much less usefull. And sort of typical for them, as i was wondering how they accomplished all that with hdmi, and the answer is that they did not. People are not going to read the fine print and try and hook up a sony or oppo and find out that it does not work.
Nebby Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 Did not see that. Which means it is completely useless unless you buy both pieces as there is no other way to get pure dsd into the dac. Makes it much less usefull. And sort of typical for them, as i was wondering how they accomplished all that with hdmi, and the answer is that they did not. People are not going to read the fine print and try and hook up a sony or oppo and find out that it does not work. There are people already asking for them if they can do exactly that and the answer of course was no. Perhaps they're hoping the modding community will provide the hacking services needed?
morphsci Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 Unless I missed something, I was under the impression that the perfect wave does not do DSD decoding. I would be rather glad to be proven wrong.
Nebby Posted May 10, 2009 Report Posted May 10, 2009 I think you're correct morphsci, they mention using HDMI to transport I2S but don't talk about DSD.
Dusty Chalk Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 Which means it is completely useless unless you buy both pieces...Yup. Unless, of course, you need a DAC.
Icarium Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 Yup. Unless, of course, you need a DAC. And everybody needs a 3k 8741 DAC.
morphsci Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 I will be in a wait and see mode. I like the idea of this DAC (or whatever it is) but I'm not so crazy about how they are trying to tie it tightly to their transport. If they add in DSD support on HDMI and a few other items I might have to take another look at it. For right now I'll keep looking.
The Monkey Posted May 11, 2009 Author Report Posted May 11, 2009 And everybody needs a 3k 8741 DAC. Well, I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out here. Are the chips such that this thing will in all likelihood sound meh?
Icarium Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 Well I'm absolutely no expert, but my experience is that even the top flight Wolfson chips are not the best sounding versus something like PCM63/1702/1704 AD1862/1955 and various discete ladder dacs and probably the ESS stable. But as it has been said numerous times... I/V.. digital filter and perhaps most of all analog output stage are all nearly as or as critical pieces of the puzzle. But if the WM8741 is not the best chip money can buy... then even if you surround it with the best possible circuit is it going to be as good as one of those other chips surrounded by a circuit of equal quality? Maybe not... which is intrinsically fine since it probably will still sound good if everything else is up to snuff and the WM chip is not a bad chip per se... But this thing is 3k. Moreover the circuit may not be ~superrr badass though it may be... the digital link III is pretty solid. But one has to wonder how much R&D time/money went into the programmability/display/touch screen and how much of the cost is due to that versus other things? Shrug. I'd like to hear it Perhaps I will, and perhaps it is some sort of magical combination that lets the WM8741 blossom into a super saiyajin or some shit... but it is 3k and doesn't have any of those magical features that KG mentions
kevin gilmore Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 The wolfson dac definitely is native dsd compatible, but if you read thru the marketing bullshit, the term DSD is never ever used. Just high resolution WAV files. This is a boat anchor from the start. Not going to be upgradeable to DSD without significant amounts of work, and licensing. No way un-encrypted i2s link is going to be allowed for DSD. Unlikely that PSaudio actually designed this, someone else did. Another antique right out of the box. You would be much better off buying the latest dCS stuff at 33% of retail and then bolting it to a late model sony for about the same price.
morphsci Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 .... You would be much better off buying the latest dCS stuff at 33% of retail and then bolting it to a late model sony for about the same price. The question is how do you get the DSD from the Sony to the dCS without a lot of hacking and cludging? The IEEE 1364 implementation looks pretty dCS specific and I do not think the Sony has SDIF-2 DSD out.
Dreadhead Posted May 11, 2009 Report Posted May 11, 2009 The question is how do you get the DSD from the Sony to the dCS without a lot of hacking and cludging? The IEEE 1364 implementation looks pretty dCS specific and I do not think the Sony has SDIF-2 DSD out. zigzactly. HDMI is pretty much it for non-proprietary interfaces and very few DACs take in DSD through HDMI.
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