Antelope Audio DACS

[guzziguy]

Or you could go to this page and use the contact information that is appropriate for you.

[Mr.Sneis]

Hmm, interesting comments here, helps me on my DAC search

Currently I'm in the hunt for something that is a solid performer and can best my Stello DA100S

[Eric5676]

You could also try contacting Marcel (of Antelope) to ask some questions. He has an account over at HF. I'm not sure about on here though.

I still haven't forgotten about you, either.

[manaox2]

Zodiac+ was at Canjam and at Canfest. It didn't help that the only high end cans I could find paired with them were the Ultrasone Ed. 8 and GS1000. Didn't sound bad AFAI could tell, but really hard to judge with what are some of probably my least favorite higher pricetag phones. I think I still have their card, I'm really happy they are putting themselves out there at the meets like they are.

[NekoAudio]

Zodiac+ was at Canjam and at Canfest.

Yeah. I shared a room with them at Can Jam, which is how I know Marcel. I enjoyed having a chance to listen to the Zodiac+.

[manaox2]

Yep, had the business card

Marcel James

Director of US Sales and Marketing

phone: 415.869.9661 ext 710

fax: 415.520.0954

email: [email protected]

[Eric5676]

Definitely some sweet looking hardware but the more I look at that lineup the more I think that I'd need to be a sound engineer or some other kind of high end professional like that to consider a purchase. That's a self deprecating compliment to them on my part.

[kevin gilmore]

I want to see pictures of the insides first. I use OCXO's all the time, they are a $500 part. At least the good

ones are that much. I don't see how you can put a $500 part inside a $3500 retail priced unit.

Poorly done non PID temperature control would be just as bad as no temperature control whatsoever.

Still, kind of silly as the only thing it does is stabilize at a specific frequency, and unless the thing is actually

powered on all the time, it would do more harm than good. TCXO's are a much better idea, and cheaper

and stabilize quicker. Analog volume control is definitely the right way to do this.

[Eric5676]

I want to see pictures of the insides first. I use OCXO's all the time, they are a $500 part. At least the good

ones are that much. I don't see how you can put a $500 part inside a $3500 retail priced unit.

Poorly done non PID temperature control would be just as bad as no temperature control whatsoever.

Still, kind of silly as the only thing it does is stabilize at a specific frequency, and unless the thing is actually

powered on all the time, it would do more harm than good. TCXO's are a much better idea, and cheaper

and stabilize quicker. Analog volume control is definitely the right way to do this.

Maybe I have the wrong attitude about this but ideally I believe in an "open box" policy. What I mean by that is: Regardless of manufacterer, small or large, at some point during a review process there should be interior shots of the equipment provided.

That way folks that are well informed on hardware like yourself or any number of folks around here (can't include myself) could look at those interior shots and swim right past any flowery marketing to the truth: Is it a $<$1000 piece of gear masquerading as a $3500 one or is it the real deal?

Unfortunately I know the very first downside to my concept is: You leave yourself wide open to con artists who will rip your designs off and turn around and sell eerily similar equipment 8-12 months later with an appreciable markup. Why does that sound familiar to me?

[NekoAudio]

That way folks that are well informed on hardware like yourself or any number of folks around here (can't include myself) could look at those interior shots and swim right past any flowery marketing to the truth: Is it a $<$1000 piece of gear masquerading as a $3500 one or is it the real deal?

Unfortunately I know the very first downside to my concept is: You leave yourself wide open to con artists who will rip your designs off and turn around and sell eerily similar equipment 8-12 months later with an appreciable markup. Why does that sound familiar to me?

If you _really_ care about that, you can use internal PCB traces, epoxies that prevent disassembling or chip identification, etc. Then it takes an X-ray machine and some serious work to reverse engineer a product. Plus, a lot of advanced features like audio DSP are a software thing.

But anyone shopping boutique audio shouldn't expect the BOM (bill of materials) + labor costs to be that closely tied to the MSRP. Somewhat similarly to how software pricing isn't based on reproduction costs. Small volume, R&D, the psychological and marketing aspects of higher or differing price points, customer support, and business growth goals all factor into the end MSRP. (I mention this in general, and not specifically with respect to Antelope Audio.)

Edited September 8, 2010 by NekoAudio
Clarified that my comments about MSRP apply in general, and not specifically to Antelope Audio.

[atothex]

I'd pay $3500 for $1000 worth of parts, if it's done well.

[spritzer]

In terms of high end audio a 3.2:1 markup would be very much on the low side.

[Eric5676]

If you _really_ care about that, you can use internal PCB traces, epoxies that prevent disassembling or chip identification, etc. Then it takes an X-ray machine and some serious work to reverse engineer a product. Plus, a lot of advanced features like audio DSP are a software thing.

But anyone shopping boutique audio shouldn't expect the BOM (bill of materials) + labor costs to be that closely tied to the MSRP. Somewhat similarly to how software pricing isn't based on reproduction costs. Small volume, R&D, the psychological and marketing aspects of higher or differing price points, customer support, and business growth goals all factor into the end MSRP. (I mention this in general, and not specifically with respect to Antelope Audio.)

^^ Great post. Thanks for the information.

Antelope Zodiac + Arrived | Computer Audiophile Some folks are starting to tinker and put out some new impressions at last. Someone here is putting out numbers as it relates to the XLRs on the Zodiac Plus.

review33.com - ?

Some pictures and odds and ends. Slowly but surely data and firsthand accounts are starting to trickle out.

[Eric5676]

Antelope Audio Zodiac + (evolving review)

For those of you still curious about this unit. Keep an eye on that thread.

[diebenkorn]

6moons audio reviews: Antelope Audio Zodiac+

pics of the insides

[Eric5676]

I really try to be careful before posting stuff like this on the Internet but here goes. The following is strictly my opinion after my personal experiences. Nothing else.

6moons audio reviews: Antelope Audio Zodiac+

pics of the insides

Some folks' reaction to those shots were less than thrilled/doing cartwheels in the streets. Anyone here have any opinions?

Personally there's a number of things that came together for me during my recon runs that made it to where I'm very glad I didn't buy this for myself. The four Zodiac owners I had nice contact with on boards and over PMs were quite candid and revealing. I kept running into "They liked it, but" type sentiments.

I checked this multiple times in both directions with identical results. I assume this skipping of certain steps is intrinsic to the chosen approach which eschews an optical encoder, relays or stepper pot.

Sorry, but at $2500 this is BS. Hell, for me personally, at a lot less than $2500 this is BS.

To perfectionists the Zodiac Gold's stepped attenuator beckons as will its upgraded power supply.

Shouldn't have to go this large and expensive to get the job done. Sorry, that's BS, too.

A cheesy off-the-shelf Sino SMPS smaller than a laptop's is the first sign that the Zodiac+ doesn't exactly cater to audiophiles at least on perception.

Perception my ass.

The word on performance remains out until our October 1 move is behind us and this review loaner has clocked a few hundred obligatory break-in hours.

Translation: They cut corners.

I do not see the $1000 extra over my Wyred DAC-2 at all here. Not even close.

$1500 for a stirling piece of kit and a very clear warranty for 3 years right out of the box is what I got vs. this thing.

You can compare the innard shots of it right on 6 moons with these.

For the record: A little over a week ago, I had my Sweetwater rep and FOUR owners of this piece that had to practically scour the Earth for me to tell me what the manufacterer's warranty was, which is a paltry one year. One of those four owners was press.

That's ridiculous.

I don't want to post FUD or talk crap but I think back to Aardvark Audio and when I can go to Wal Mart and fetch a $50 piece of Chinese crap off the shelf, at least even that has the warranty printed in the friggin' manual clear as day and it isn't a bunch of guess work and mystery. 4 owners and a Sweetwater rep didn't know until they had to scour the Earth for me. One owner was a member of the press so he probably reached out, which he shouldn't have had to do, and emailed me back in an hour after I asked him and the Sweetwater rep had to email someone at Antelope and it took him an hour to get back to me as well.

I'm sorry, that just isn't right. You add it all up and my instincts told me to drop this thing and move on and frankly I'm glad I did.

I know whatever happened at Aardvark wasn't Igor Levin's fault but really: This looks a bit hazy to me and I wouldn't be surprised at all if a year or two from now I hear about an Aardvark part 2 type situation. But that's just me talking.

End Rant.

[morphsci]

I'm glad you are happy with your unit but if you are going to post reviews, sorry rants, without actually hearing and using a unit could you please post that at Head-Fi and not here. They're more into the self-justification posts.

[Eric5676]

I'm glad you are happy with your unit but if you are going to post reviews, sorry rants, without actually hearing and using a unit could you please post that at Head-Fi and not here. They're more into the self-justification posts.

I'm sorry that's how it was perceived. I'm a little flared up about something else today that has nothing to do with any of this and this is certainly not the kind of intent I had nor the message I want to convey. My apologies.

[morphsci]

No need to get rid of it. That is only my opinion and I do not have much faith in anything written by 6 moons.

[Eric5676]

No need to get rid of it. That is only my opinion and I do not have much faith in anything written by 6 moons.

Certainly fair enough but I can see where you'd come away with that impression and it really is not one I want to present. I shouldn't have posted that like that without having this little personal issue of mine cleared up first. That looks a bit more "intense" than what I really had wanted to put up. I should have done better than that.

[Eric5676]

Yeah, just ask our resident former six moons writer.

That's saying something.

In any event, when I regain some funds in my pocket I may yet take advantage of Sweetwater's generous return policy and the fact that they're an hour away from me and take one of these for a test spin anyways. Why the hell not? I'd be lying if I said if this product line didn't still intrigue me despite my overstated/harsh/shrill looking concerns in my previous rant post a couple of spots back.

Of course, if I do that there will be a thread with lots of pretty eye candy. It'll at least be useful for that if the analysis and impressions are lacking.

[NekoAudio]

In any event, when I regain some funds in my pocket I may yet take advantage of Sweetwater's generous return policy and the fact that they're an hour away from me and take one of these for a test spin anyways.

I think you'd be doing yourself a favor by taking a listen. You'll never know if you will really like how the Zodiac+ sounds until you give it a spin.