Neko Audio DAC

[Augsburger]

See you at Can Jam!

[NekoAudio]

Nice, and congrats

Thanks, Smeggy.

See you at Can Jam!

Yep! For those of you who aren't secret agents, I'll be exhibiting at Can Jam 2009 on May 30-31. So if you happen to be in the Los Angeles area you can stop by to listen to the D100.

[Smeggy]

Now, about that $300 dollar USB version you promised me

[NekoAudio]

I'm still waiting for my Dalek cake!

[zippy2001]

Yep! For those of you who aren't secret agents, I'll be exhibiting at Can Jam 2009 on May 30-31. So if you happen to be in the Los Angeles area you can stop by to listen to the D100.

I look forward to listening to your DAC at CanJam.

[tkam]

I'm going to give this dac a try, have one on the way should get here friday.

[NekoAudio]

Just thought I'd post an update related to Can Jam.

I will be bringing a CD player and MacBook for use as transports, a Channel Islands VPH-2 and Anthem TLP-1 as headphone pre-amps, and an AKG K 702 for the cans. If you can make it, bring whatever music or gear you'd like to try out with the D100.

[n_maher]

Just thought I'd post an update related to Can Jam.

I will be bringing a CD player and MacBook for use as transports, a Channel Islands VPH-2 and Anthem TLP-1 as headphone pre-amps, and an AKG K 702 for the cans. If you can make it, bring whatever music or gear you'd like to try out with the D100.

I would respectfully suggest that when one is trying to entice people into buying a ~$1300 DAC that it would wise to couple it to something other than ~$500 headphone amps. It's going to seem like a mismatch to most folks, even those of us inclined to spend more on our source than amps.

[Voltron]

I agree with Nate, especially with regard to the Anthem preamp with a headphone jack. Maybe you could try to swing a deal with another vendor (builder or retailer) to borrow a better headphone amp. If you are able to bring another unit, they could borrow a DAC from you. Good for both of you to cross-promote and have better gear for the attendees.

[NekoAudio]

Do you guys have some suggestions?

I'm not much of a headphone listener myself, preferring speaker setups, so I don't know as much about what's considered higher-end for headphones and headphone amps. The AKG K 702 seemed to be well liked over at Head-Fi, and the goal would be to use an amp that does not color the sound at all.

[Tachikoma]

Erm, maybe a beta22? The headphone amplification forum has plenty of examples and the AKG K701/2 isn't very well liked here.

[grawk]

It depends on how good you think your dac is . A TTVJ 307a, Luxman P200, Headroom Balanced Ultra, EddieCurrent Zana Deux T or Balancing Act...

[Voltron]

Do you guys have some suggestions?

I'm not much of a headphone listener myself, preferring speaker setups, so I don't know as much about what's considered higher-end for headphones and headphone amps. The AKG K 702 seemed to be well liked over at Head-Fi, and the goal would be to use an amp that does not color the sound at all.

You could contact Todd at ttvj.com and ask him if he has any FET-A amps available. You could call of PM Tyll Hertsens and see if HeadRoom has any demo amps that they could loan you for the show. You could buy a Luxman P-200 (from Todd) and have a beautiful amp to show your gear with and still not break the bank. Lots of ideas. PM jp11801 or 909 or augsburger and see if they have any ideas because they are closer to the vendors at this meet.

[penger]

But these amps Voltron listed are not balanced like the DAC is? Just another consideration when picking out an amp?

[Voltron]

HeadRoom has balanced amps, but I wasn't aware it was balanced. The HPA-2 certainly isn't balanced and the Anthem preamp certainly has no balanced headphone output.

[HeadphoneAddict]

It depends on how good you think your dac is . A TTVJ 307a, Luxman P200, Headroom Balanced Ultra, EddieCurrent Zana Deux T or Balancing Act...

My Eddie Current Zana Deux T wont be ready till June but I could loan him my balanced Single Power Square Wave XL.

[NekoAudio]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys. I've emailed TTVJ about the Luxman P-200 to try and get more info about it--see if it would be a good match for the D100. I'm looking at the Grado RS1 as a headphone option. Do you guys have any opinions regarding the RS1?

HeadphoneAddict, do you have any details about the Single Power Square Wave XL? I couldn't find much except for pictures. If you're actually willing to send me a loaner.

Balanced versus unbalanced shouldn't matter much, although no doubt the Can Jam room will be a noisier environment than your typical home. But good channel separation, signal-to-noise, and no coloration of the sound is important. The D100's channel separation and signal-to-noise is pretty much at the limits of the Audio Precision ATS-2 (i.e. around -130dB).

[n_maher]

It might also be worth asking Justin if he's got a GS-1 or GS-X. I'm just trying to think of other manufacturers that don't already produce their own home sources.

[NekoAudio]

Todd got back to me and the Luxman P-200 isn't in stock, with a slight chance of arriving in time for Can Jam. So that doesn't look like an option right now.

[HeadphoneAddict]

Thanks for all the great suggestions, guys. I've emailed TTVJ about the Luxman P-200 to try and get more info about it--see if it would be a good match for the D100. I'm looking at the Grado RS1 as a headphone option. Do you guys have any opinions regarding the RS1?

HeadphoneAddict, do you have any details about the Single Power Square Wave XL? I couldn't find much except for pictures. If you're actually willing to send me a loaner.

Balanced versus unbalanced shouldn't matter much, although no doubt the Can Jam room will be a noisier environment than your typical home. But good channel separation, signal-to-noise, and no coloration of the sound is important. The D100's channel separation and signal-to-noise is pretty much at the limits of the Audio Precision ATS-2 (i.e. around -130dB).

Yes, I am willing to send you the loaner balanced amp. And I could bring it home with me when I leave CanJam.

The Square Wave XL is a controversial amp because so few have heard the final version at the CO Head-fi meet in July 2008, and because SP customer service sucks. It is a small balanced discrete output SS amp about the size of an external 3.5" external hard drive, with a power brick that is bigger and heavier than the amp itself. My Sq Wave is the upgraded 2008 demo version with Blackgates caps in it, which I talked SP out of at the 2008 Colorado meet when with my HD600 it was outperforming a Headroom Balanced Desktop amp out of a Music Hall 25.2 source. When the prototype was introduced in 2007 it was sent to a few reviewers and got mixed reviews - it was felt to be an average amp, so SP made some changes that I think now make it a very good amp. It was not embarrassed to be compared side by side with a Zana Deux, Melos SHA Gold and maxed Woo WA6. It does sound better balanced than when driving headphones single ended (Denon D2000 and Senn HD600), but with Grado HP-1000 and PS-1 and RS-1 it still sounded pretty good when used single ended.

It has no power switch and stays warmed-up all the time. It has two 3-pin XLR jacks that each contain a single ended 1/4" in the center, so it can drive one balanced pair or two pair of SE headphones at the same time. It doesn't do well with two 25-32 ohm headphones (Grado or Denon), but one low impedance and one high impedance headphone (like HD600) works well. There are two small volume knobs, one for each channel, so that channel balance can be altered or tuned by ear. I use a Apogee mini-DAC as a preamp for volume control so that I only have to set the two volume controls and leave them. Power output is enough to drive the AKG K1000 to loud volumes, although I don't think it is the best choice for K1000 (Beta 22 or a speaker amp does sound better with those).

It has a set of RCA and XLR inputs, and the RCA can be used as a single ended loop out when it is fed a balanced input. So, you can still still hook up the input of one of your other amps to the loop out. Per SP, it converts single ended input via RCA to balanced by "re-creating" the inverse of the positive input, and ignores the ground input in the process. I don't know if that is marketing fluff but it works pretty well with SE input. I do not hear much difference in the sound between balanced or SE input from either my PS Audio Digital Link III or my Apogee Mini-DAC. It is what SP tried to dub "8-channel" technology because each 90 degree phase of the sound wave is driven separately (up +, down +, down -, up -) for each of the two channels. Some people disputed whether that was actually 8 channels, but the way he described it may fit, I don't know.

Naamanf wants to bring over a BuffaloDAC32 to try out next week, and I could send the SP to you after that if you PM me your address. Also in the PM let me know what date it has to arrive by to make it before you leave for CanJam, so I can choose between ground, 3-day or 2-day shipping. I can simply bring it home with me at the end of CanJam. One note - the power brick has a slight rattle inside of it since the day I got it, so don't worry that it broke in transport as it works fine. If the rattle drives you nuts you are welcome to look inside for me to see what broke loose. I'm afraid that if I send it to SP for repair that I will never see it again. No Joke.

If you don't want to use it, no problem, just let me know either way. Maybe the head-casers will have an opinion about whether you should use it?

[n_maher]

Using a Singlepower amp for one's head-fi debut has to be about the worst idea I've heard in a long time.

[dsavitsk]

Do you guys have any opinions regarding the RS1?

The RS-1s are a good option since you won't need any gain to power them from your DAC, just a buffer. Here is some detail on what they need.

Why don't you just build something? A couple of back to back source followers into a 150:600 transformer will sound great, and should match the character of the DAC pretty well.

[grawk]

Yes, I strongly discourage the use of the singlepower because 1) it associates you with singlepower, and 2) it promotes singlepower. Just say no to the squarewave.

[Voltron]

It might also be worth asking Justin if he's got a GS-1 or GS-X. I'm just trying to think of other manufacturers that don't already produce their own home sources.

Good point. I guess Tyll might not want to help a potential competitor to the new HR DAC!

Bad idea, SquareWave is.

[HeadphoneAddict]

So far the vote is 4 against, 0 for it.

I would say you take their advice and not associate yourself with SP. Maybe Naamanf will loan you his Beta 22? You could always ask.

Maybe I could talk Craig Uthus into bringing my Zana Deux T to CanJam for you to use, but it is SE input balanced output. He was focusing on getting the Balancing Act's shipped out first.