Knuckledragger Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Is it me .... or does this amp look both ugly and cheap? The volume knob really looks funky. Hi. This is a $6000 TTVJ tube amp: I'm not gonna say it's arm gnawingly ugly, but even Mr. Takei gets a chuckle at that faceplate. Yet, for some odd reason the headphone cognoscenti lust after it madly. One might start to get the idea that Todd has some kind of wacky function-over-form philosophy. Maybe he should he should start to imitate the Denver business model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanY Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Hi. This is a $6000 TTVJ tube amp: ... I'm not gonna say it's arm gnawingly ugly, but even Mr. Takei gets a chuckle at that faceplate. Yet, for some odd reason the headphone cognoscenti lust after it madly. One might start to get the idea that Todd has some kind of wacky function-over-form philosophy. Maybe he should he should start to imitate the Denver business model. IMHO there isn't anything wrong with the look of the TTVJ/Millett amps. They have a certain made-by-an-engineer aesthetic. And the internal wiring of the 307A is very carefully done, almost paralleling the honesty of the outside. You don't get an enormous shiny polished chassis, but you also don't get wallwarts and a rats nest inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 todd must be mirror universe mikhail. Now that's funny stuff. The unfortunate reality is that the 307A is an amazing amp and yet people don't buy them in nearly the numbers that they buy the shiny black boxes (in more ways than one) from Colorado. ...Maybe he should he should start to imitate the Denver business model. Funny you should say that because Todd and Pete have kicked around the idea of a tricked out more pricey version. I personally think a better face plate, better knobs, and a cage for the works would be good enough for most people. Ideally, those gorgeous tubes would be up front even though I know the reasoning for their current location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp11801 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 well looks aside I have always been impressed with the sound of the 307a amp, yes it could use some lipstick but the sound is just awesome. I have a feeling that the fet amp is going to rock and can't wait to hear it. I do think that Pete and Todd could do a better job of dressing up the exterior and hope they do so in future runs. I would not make my choice on the exterior of the box though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark baguette Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I wasn't initially impressed with the aesthetics of the 307a amp but now find myself wanting one after reading some reviews. I also never saw the amp from an angle initially. I think when you see it from an angle, and see the beautiful wood sides, it somehow all comes together. Some sort of yin and yang thing, I don't know. The volume knob could just to be unique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbi1 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 The 307a is my favorite amp of all time - I hogged it for 2 hours at the Dallas meet, and the Tango/James iron is just yummy. I may yet just stop building amps and buy one - everything else seems like a waste, though I did just score $700 in Lundahl iron to see if I can get close. If not, well, I know where the end of the road is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 The 307a is my favorite amp of all time - I hogged it for 2 hours at the Dallas meet, and the Tango/James iron is just yummy. I may yet just stop building amps and buy one - everything else seems like a waste, though I did just score $700 in Lundahl iron to see if I can get close. If not, well, I know where the end of the road is. Don't forget that you can take the same design priciples and apply them to a 'stat amp too. All triodes with either direct or transformer coupling... yummy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 The 307a is my favorite amp of all time - I hogged it for 2 hours at the Dallas meet, and the Tango/James iron is just yummy. I may yet just stop building amps and buy one - everything else seems like a waste, though I did just score $700 in Lundahl iron to see if I can get close. If not, well, I know where the end of the road is. I am with you. I pretty much was listening to the 307a about 95% of the time at the last Chicago meet. To my ears, playing a diverse set of recordings, the 307a showed off a transparency and overall neutrality that it was just like stepping into the music, something that I last experienced with the Zana Deux. I could not detect any output transformer coloration to my ears, compared to my moth si2a3/45H. If it didn't cost as much as an organ transplant it woulde definitely be an option for me. I was not aware that the output iron was Tango - do you have a reference for that fact? I do not question it, just curious, Todd was pretty tight-lipped with me, just saying they were "custom" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 a little birdie told me... all the iron in the ttvj 307A amp -- power transformer, inductor, input transformers, and output transformers are made by electra-print and are available to anyone to buy off his site. even the current source boards are bought from tent labs. only the chassis is custom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 a little birdie told me... all the iron in the ttvj 307A amp -- power transformer, inductor, input transformers, and output transformers are made by electra-print and are available to anyone to buy off his site. even the current source boards are bought from tent labs. only the chassis is custom. Most electra-print trafos/chokes/etc are custom orders so yes I'm sure you can call/email and get the same thing if that's who made them for Pete. But that's hardly an "off the shelf" item. It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone to find out that the amp uses current production parts. The idea wasn't to create something that could only be built a finite number of time or never repaired in kind. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that more than just the chassis is custom. Pete designed it from the ground up, layout and all and went through several circuit and part revisions before settling on what is the production version. You make it sound like he called up a couple companies, ordered some parts and slapped them in a custom chassis. That's pretty off base from where I sit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanY Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 even the current source boards are bought from tent labs. only the chassis is custom. This wouldn't be unusual. Pete Millett is a fan of the Tent Labs current source boards. He even has a lower cost PCB design on his website that's meant to be interchangeable with the Tent Labs boards. The Tent Labs boards certainly aren't cheap parts... they're $117 Euros *each* (roughly $150 USD right now) and the amp needs two of them. The iron alone is another $300, assuming it's low end. Adding in the chassis and components and the parts cost in my mind is around $1200. Add in cost of labour and the profit margin on these amps is very reasonable for "high end" gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recstar24 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 a little birdie told me... all the iron in the ttvj 307A amp -- power transformer, inductor, input transformers, and output transformers are made by electra-print and are available to anyone to buy off his site. even the current source boards are bought from tent labs. only the chassis is custom. Thanks for the info - being a fan of Craig's stuff I have always loved the sound of the electraprint iron (though I admit not having that much experience with different iron other than hammond, james, and tango). If anything that is a huge selling point the fact that todd and Pete would get custom electraprint iron for the 307a, good for them, and good for whoever has the luxury of having such a fantastic amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 You make it sound like he called up a couple companies, ordered some parts and slapped them in a custom chassis. That's pretty off base from where I sit. reiterating what i heard about the transformers and tight/selling-lips. it's just another perspective from someone after reading the 307A product description, mind you not mine, but someone who really knows his stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvdunhill Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 The 307a is my favorite amp of all time - I hogged it for 2 hours at the Dallas meet, and the Tango/James iron is just yummy. I may yet just stop building amps and buy one - everything else seems like a waste, though I did just score $700 in Lundahl iron to see if I can get close. If not, well, I know where the end of the road is. a little birdie told me... all the iron in the ttvj 307A amp -- power transformer, inductor, input transformers, and output transformers are made by electra-print and are available to anyone to buy off his site. even the current source boards are bought from tent labs. only the chassis is custom. wait, conflicting info here!! You two must resolve this! I knew Al talked with Pete at length at the Dallas meet about iron, so 909 must reveal his source as well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 This wouldn't be unusual. Pete Millett is a fan of the Tent Labs current source boards. He even has a lower cost PCB design on his website that's meant to be interchangeable with the Tent Labs boards. The Tent Labs boards certainly aren't cheap parts... they're $117 Euros *each* (roughly $150 USD right now) and the amp needs two of them. The iron alone is another $300, assuming it's low end. Adding in the chassis and components and the parts cost in my mind is around $1200. Add in cost of labour and the profit margin on these amps is very reasonable for "high end" gear. Ha interesting I've heard that $1200 figure as well for parts exactly. Interesting that two independent sources calculated the exact same figure. That being said I don't think its an unreasonable amount of markup since $1200 in parts doesn't factor in labor. Hell I've paid Singlepower markup. TTVJ/Millet markup seems way reasonable especially given how decent the amp sounds and how solidly it is built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ha interesting I've heard that $1200 figure as well for parts exactly. Interesting that two independent sources calculated the exact same figure. That being said I don't think its an unreasonable amount of markup since $1200 in parts doesn't factor in labor. Hell I've paid Singlepower markup. TTVJ/Millet markup seems way reasonable especially given how decent the amp sounds and how solidly it is built. Don't forget that there was actually prototyping and testing done as well so there is some real development cost to be recouped. IIRC Pete went through 3 or 4 chokes before he found one that would work (the custom piece). And I wouldn't be shocked to learn that there was more than $1200 in parts in the build either. I'd bet the iron alone takes up as much as 50 to 75% of that figure and the chassis, while not pretty in everyone's book isn't some piano finished turd either. 909, I don't get your latest comment. Are you saying that you find something disingenuous about the 307A's product description? If anything I find it remarkably transparent and devoid of the usual bullshit that seems par for the course these days. It gives actual information about the circuit without name dropping every component they used, where's the fault in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanY Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ha interesting I've heard that $1200 figure as well for parts exactly. Interesting that two independent sources calculated the exact same figure. That being said I don't think its an unreasonable amount of markup since $1200 in parts doesn't factor in labor. Hell I've paid Singlepower markup. TTVJ/Millet markup seems way reasonable especially given how decent the amp sounds and how solidly it is built. Just to be clear, the $1200 figure was just a guestimate on parts based on my DIY experience. I don't have any inside knowledge. This is much lower percentage markup than most high-end gear. The Bryston BDA-1 for instance, which I consider a good value, is only about $300 in parts including the chassis... about 7x markup. Most high end gear is 10x. The new Reimyo DAC is more than 15x. The 307A is only 5x, and that doesn't count labour, which is considerable, given that these are hand-assembled. BTW, if the iron used is at all above average, the parts cost will be higher. That is the biggest variable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Sure. Like I said I don't find it particularly unreasonable as I also mentioned I am very familiar with some of the more extreme cases of mark up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
909 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 909, I don't get your latest comment. Are you saying that you find something disingenuous about the 307A's product description? If anything I find it remarkably transparent and devoid of the usual bullshit that seems par for the course these days. It gives actual information about the circuit without name dropping every component they used, where's the fault in that? possibly because i never offered my own opinion on the subject, yet yours seems to have as much validity and persuasiveness as my other friend plus i tend to trust both of you since you know more than me about this stuff, though, certainly one of you has a lot more experience and expertise building amps. it isn't such a big deal, at least to me, that both of you view the description on pretty polar opposite ends of the spectrum. that being said, i am really excited to hear this amp at CJ09, likely more so than anything else, and will judge the amp on sonics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Here is a picture of the insides of the amp. I can't for the life of me remeber where I got it so if it steps on any toes, will the mods please remove it or I can just remove it from the 'shack. If the other stuff in this price range even approached to be half as well designed and executed as this then there could actually be some competition to speak of. I don't think that he uses Tango iron as they usually have a cutout at the bottom with terminals and not lead wires but it could simply be hidden from view by the PCB. The CCS is clearly off board. Btw. I approve of the Metcal soldering iron... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knuckledragger Posted February 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I took the picture down since I'm not sure if I could share it in the first place and I can't remember who sent it to me. I have a lot of pictures that can't be shared so better to err on side of caution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I took the picture down since I'm not sure if I could share it in the first place and I can't remember who sent it to me. I'm sure I have seen it before...... and I'm pretty sure it was on Head-Case. I have a lot of pictures that can't be shared so better to err on side of caution... Good. Nobody needs to see that part of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spritzer Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I'm sure I have seen it before...... and I'm pretty sure it was on Head-Case. Ok, but wasn't it behind closed doors? Good. Nobody needs to see that part of you Hey, I'm a Nordic God so I can do what I please. If that's dressing up in drag then thats my business... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefy Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Ok, but wasn't it behind closed doors? Good point. But I haven't had Casino access for very long, so who knows...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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