Looking for a mid/low priced, high performing full size can

[Dash]

My 2 cents is to use this as an opportunity to try something outside the Grado family and maybe even a compliment can.

But then again, the MS2i with flats is pretty awesome by Grado standards.

[Tony]

The PK1 are very decent. Gradoish, but less plasticky and more neutral over something like the SR-60.

[guzziguy]

Incorrect.

I've yet to find headphones that actually let me feel music on my body. Speakers do this. Good speakers do everything good headphones do plus this. To me, that's more presence.

[Dusty Chalk]

That's not presence. You can talk about "visceral" impact, but that's not presence. Admittedly, presence doesn't have that specific a meaning when talking audio, but that's so far from what I would term as presence that I have to disagree with you -- it's merely one element. I have heard headphone reproduction so good -- with the exception of feeling it with my body -- that I did not miss the visceral impact, it was that good. It had presence, that feeling of the music being right there in front of me, alive, and lively and whatever other pseudo-synonyms you want to throw in there. Maybe it's just me -- though I kind of doubt it, although I won't argue that we're in the minority -- but once you get beyond a certain threshold of headphone music reproduction, you stop getting distracted by it's lack of impacting anything other than your ears. Those people who continue to get distracted by that are just stubborn in my opinion. I don't know if it's a subconscious stubbornness or what, but that's the best word I can come up with for it.

[Smeggy]

It's weird but my more bassy phones give the effect of body bass. It actually feels like the bass is vibrating inside you. Total audio-trickery on the brain of course, but very convincing all the same. I've only come across it on a few phones and it's quite a sensation.

The phones need strong and very deep bass to pull it off and also a tight ear seal.

[HiWire]

It's weird but my more bassy phones give the effect of body bass.

It's an interesting sensation - the brain is expecting the body bass from what it's hearing. Still, it's kind of hard to replicate the feeling, in general... you know, the kind you get when the drums in a marching band pass by. That usually makes my heart beat faster, etc.

[Dusty Chalk]

...the brain is expecting the body bass from what it's hearing...

No, that's exactly what I'm saying is not happening in my case. Maybe we're programmed differently, but there's just no feeling of "missing something".

[Smeggy]

In my case it's usually unexpected and I suddenly get this sensation of rumbling innards and I quickly whip off the phones to see what the hell is going on. It can be disconcerting at times, like when you hear those thing coming from outside your phones normal soundstage range.

It never ceases to freak me out when that happens, especially when I'm alone

[Kabeer]

It's weird but my more bassy phones give the effect of body bass. It actually feels like the bass is vibrating inside you. Total audio-trickery on the brain of course, but very convincing all the same. I've only come across it on a few phones and it's quite a sensation.

The phones need strong and very deep bass to pull it off and also a tight ear seal.

Yup i'v experienced that too. But its only been on one or two headphones with quality deep bass...

[n_maher]

The DT770s rattle my brain, but in a bad way.

[Smeggy]

that's because you haven't been applying all of the available service packs. i believe they are up to Human release candidate 4, service pack 6, now.

Who can blame him, service pack 3 stopped my ears working for a week and then I got a virus with made everything stuffy and congested.

[aardvark baguette]

Who can blame him, service pack 3 stopped my ears working for a week and then I got a virus with made everything stuffy and congested.

Shouldnt have used open source.

[recstar24]

Any comments on the Sleek Audio 6?

Here is where I am at, possibly looking into a long term portable set-up:

Westone 3

Etymotic Er4s

Yuin PK1

Sleek Audio 6

Triple Fi 10

[laxx]

I second the Pk1's. I had both the Pk1 and 2, prefered the Pk2 out of my dap, but the Pk1 out of the Mini3 is just great. It's waht I use at work now.

[Fungi]

I could live with the SA6 and nothing more. It's not "wow high end" and still has IEM soundstage, but it's very good.

[Dusty Chalk]

that's because you haven't been applying all of the available service packs. i believe they are up to Human release candidate 4, service pack 6, now.

Win

[elnero]

Any comments on the Sleek Audio 6?

Here is where I am at, possibly looking into a long term portable set-up:

Westone 3

Etymotic Er4s

Yuin PK1

Sleek Audio 6

Triple Fi 10

I've owned or had extensive auditions of all you list but the PK1's, I've stayed away from buds because they don't sit right in my ears.

The SA6's a very nice IEM especially for the money. IMO they're kind of the entry point of high end universal IEM's. They don't tend to do any one thing exceptionally well but they do everything pretty good. The versatility of being able to fine tune them and the cord rotating 360 degrees add a level of value a lot of IEM's twice their price can't match.

I've never been a big fan of the Ety's myself. I've tried them on extended auditions a few times now and while I don't dislike them I find them a bit too dry and analytical sounding for my tastes. The highs a just borderline as far as sibilance goes and the bass lacks the weight I feel is natural. There's no doubt they have their virtues and I can understand why they have such a following but they're just not for me.

The Westone 3's are really nice but the only way I was able to solve sibilance issues was with tips that irritate my ears. When I first heard them I felt they were a bit of a step above the other's I've tried but now that I've had some time with a Null Audio recabled TF10 and the Sennheiser IE8's I'm inclined to say that's not the case. I haven't been able to directly compare the 3's to the recabled TF10's but when I had a loaner pair of IE8's here I felt they were on the same level if not better than the 3's. My 3's are off to Westone for replacement because of the cable coming unraveled so I haven't heard them in awhile and I don't plan on opening the replacements when I get them, they'll just be going up for sale because, at least initially, for comfort reasons I've since gone the IE8 route.

In between sending the 3's back to Westone and receiving the IE8's was when I had the recabled TF10's and I was so impressed with how good they sounded with the recable that I wondered if I had made the right decision. The recabled TF10's have a great balance, a tight punchy bass, the midrange recession I had noted previously is fixed with the recable and the highs are present, with a natural sparkle I've not heard from other IEM's and they've lost the bit of harshness they had with the stock cable. I briefly compared them with the IE8's when I got those. The IE8's have a fuller, more open sound that is a bit darker. The highs don't quite have the sparkle of the recabled TF10's and the bass is a bit thicker but IMO the IE8's have a more natural tonal presentation that is bigger and more satisfying on an emotional level. The IE8's a proving to have a real mixture of virtues that I've like about other IEM's and compromise in all the right areas for my preferences.

I should note that another determining factor between the IE8's and recabled TF10's is comfort and ease of use. The Null Audio cable is somewhat short and stiff making it somewhat awkward and the TF10's themselves are a pain to insert and not nearly as comfortable as the IE8's.

I'd suggest adding the IE8's for consideration but if for some reason you're not inclined to do that then I'd say look into a Null Audio recabled TF10.

[recstar24]

Thanks Elnero for your extremely detailed and helpful impressions. I know I cannot truly assess the comfort level until I try them, but I have read a fair amount about the TF10's odd design leading itself to not fitting well in the canal, thus losing that precious seal. But it seems from reading about the UE sound signature that it would be totally up my alley.

[elnero]

All the times I've tried the TF10's I've only used Comply tips and I didn't really have any fit problems per se, it was more just getting them inserted initially and the awkwardness of both stock and Null Audio cables. That and they stick out not allowing for listening while lying down which while not necessary is certainly a bonus.

I tend to be stationary when I'm listening as well, either at my desk at work or home or just sitting down for a listen so I'm not sure how well they'd fair if I was more active while using them.

My only real issue with the TF10's is technically they sound very good, with the Null Audio cable I'd say even one of the better balanced IEM's but at times I find they're not quite convincing if that makes sense. That's really a rather minor gripe and at this point on a purely sonic level I think for me it would be a toss up between the IE8's and the TF10's with Null Audio cable. I don't have a lot of hours on my pair of IE8's as yet so there is the possibility that could change.

[oogabooga]

I find the TF10s great - I'm very happy with them!

... That and they stick out not allowing for listening while lying down which while not necessary is certainly a bonus.

The "flip-flop" mod solves this - I can lie down on my side with my TF10s and listen to music.

... I'm not sure how well they'd fair if I was more active while using them.

I use mine at the gym with no problems. Again, the flip-flop mod helped with this - w/o it they tend to fall out when I was walking sometimes. I use Shure black foam tips - the Comply's tended to pinch in my ear, which attenuated trebles.

the Null Audio cable I'd say even one of the better balanced IEM's

So the cable makes a good amount of difference for you? I'm still debating whether to get it or not.

[Dusty Chalk]

Ryan -- what about an orthodynamic, have you heard one?

[elnero]

So the cable makes a good amount of difference for you? I'm still debating whether to get it or not.

I didn't directly compare but my impressions with the stock cable when I tried them on extended auditions a couple of times before was that the mids were a bit recessed and the highs a tad harsh. With the Null Audio cable I feel those areas are improved dramatically.

[recstar24]

darn it, sorry to throw another wrinkle into the mix...

I know I truly won't know until you try them on, but I just don't see how the TF10's are comfortable, or can retain their fit. They literally look like they jut out from the ear almost perpendicular (90 degree angle sort of).

The shure se530's though I am sure would fit much better. I do like the shure sound, the e5's I owned had amazing bass and good mids but a somewhat dark sound sig in general due to the rolled treble. I have read some random bits and have exchanged PM's with a local headfier that the 530 improves a lot on the original e5. If you take the e5 and maybe give a bit more sparkle up top and some extension I think I would be very happy.

Thoughts? Jacob I know you had the 530's for a bit, elnero I believe owned the e500's as well. BTW - thank you elnero for the incredibly detailed impressions you left me in PM, I appreciate it.

[oogabooga]

I know I truly won't know until you try them on, but I just don't see how the TF10's are comfortable, or can retain their fit. They literally look like they jut out from the ear almost perpendicular (90 degree angle sort of).

The flip-flop mod makes them almost parallel. I spent 25 minutes on the elliptical at the gym today and they stayed in just fine, blocking out the crappy music at the gym and replacing it with Foo Fighters.

No idea about the Shures - I've only heard e2c...

[elnero]

I did live E500's as my only headphone for quite some time. I enjoyed that time immensely and I still have a soft spot for the E500's, they're a very easy headphone to just listen to music on. I never really got the feeling that there was treble missing, yes it was more laid back than some other headphones I've owned or used but for myself a bit of forgiveness on the top allowed them to be listened to with just about any recording without having an harsh treble issues.

If you're thinking in terms of the E530's though I'd be inclined to suggest adding the Sennheiser IE8's to the list. I haven't heard them side by side so take the following with a grain of salt. My impression is the IE8's are reminiscent of the E530's in that they're very easy to listen to with just about anything partially treble is a bit laid back but based on my experiences so far I'd say the IE8's are bigger, fuller, more expansive. For me a big factor having had issues with both the E500's and the W3's stationary cords is the IE8's detachable cord offers a level of versatility and piece of mind that's nearly a must when spending that much on IEM's.