fatigue from Beyer DT990s - do I need a new amp or different cans?

[acidbasement]

Hey y'all, I wonder if you can help me out with a question.

I love the way my Beyer DT990s (2005, 250 ohm) sound, especially for acoustic music. I find them a bit fatiguing when I listen to metal though, and I suspect this is due to their (according to my ears) somewhat enhanced sparkle in the treble region. My present amp is just the headphone out in my NAD av receiver - nothing fancy, but many people seem to like the headphone outs from NAD. For a source, I use either the NAD T534 multiplayer or the Playstation 1.

So, what do I need - proper amplification or a different headphone? Or different source?

I am kind of new at this hobby, and have not been able to attend a meet to try out different amps. I'm also on too tight a budget to start acquiring amps over the net willy-nilly just for the purposes of trying them out.

My gut tells me that a different amp will not do enough to tame down the treble on the DT990s, and that I should trade them in for some Sennheisers before making any other upgrades.

What say you, o esteemed experts?

[n_maher]

I would not look to an amp to substantially alter the sound signature of your headphones. I haven't heard the DT990s so I can't say if they really are the issue or if something else in the chain is to blame but my Dt770s certainly aren't neutral sounding.

[nickchen]

Prominent highs can be fatiguing if you are sensitive. I personally regard "curing" by means of amplification as voodoo. You better equip yourself with smoother cans.

[postjack]

Not sure exactly what metal you are listening to, but if its modern metal, I'd say the problem is probably more in the mastering then an issue with your system. Having said that, the DT990 do tend towards the bright. A change of cans would bring about a positive change much more then a change of amplification. But I am strongly feeling the problem is with your source material. Could you name a few specific albums which are bright to you?

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm with postjack -- it's probably the source material, but a second set of cans could cure your blues, perhaps the DT770's for metal.

[acidbasement]

Not sure exactly what metal you are listening to, but if its modern metal, I'd say the problem is probably more in the mastering then an issue with your system. Having said that, the DT990 do tend towards the bright. A change of cans would bring about a positive change much more then a change of amplification. But I am strongly feeling the problem is with your source material. Could you name a few specific albums which are bright to you?

I listen mostly to European power metal and folk metal, and while I agree that some of it is badly mastered, I tend to devote my lengthy headphone sessions to better mastered albums. No matter what I listen to, the dt990s sound bright, but with acoustic music I like the brightness - it adds an element of excitement. With metal, the harder hitting nature of the music combined with the brightness of the cans is fatiguing in long listening sessions.

[acidbasement]

The initial consensus seems to agree with my gut feeling - different cans are probably in order. I remember reading a few posts on the other forum that suggested different amps to tame down the treble, but that always seemed kind of funny to me, and a risky thing to believe when placing an order for an expensive piece of gear I've never heard.

Thanks folks.

[Dreadhead]

The initial consensus seems to agree with my gut feeling - different cans are probably in order. I remember reading a few posts on the other forum that suggested different amps to tame down the treble, but that always seemed kind of funny to me, and a risky thing to believe when placing an order for an expensive piece of gear I've never heard.

Thanks folks.

Are you using a computer as a source? It'd be easy to add equalizer to see if the problem is in the highs or whatever. I use one as a permanent solution for me but for you it might help you figure out what you want done to the upper mid-range etc.

[postjack]

I listen mostly to European power metal and folk metal, and while I agree that some of it is badly mastered, I tend to devote my lengthy headphone sessions to better mastered albums. No matter what I listen to, the dt990s sound bright, but with acoustic music I like the brightness - it adds an element of excitement. With metal, the harder hitting nature of the music combined with the brightness of the cans is fatiguing in long listening sessions.

right on, looks like you know your way around the world of mastering. have you ever heard an HD650?

[acidbasement]

right on, looks like you know your way around the world of mastering. have you ever heard an HD650?

I have once, and I think I liked the HD600 better. I compared the two in a store, and did not spend a great deal of time with them, but I suspect that one of them is the can for me. I wonder how many other people besides me are hoping to get a second hand pair as folks downsize to fund their HD 800s?

[acidbasement]

Are you using a computer as a source? It'd be easy to add equalizer to see if the problem is in the highs or whatever. I use one as a permanent solution for me but for you it might help you figure out what you want done to the upper mid-range etc.

I'm using a couple of different CD players as sources right now. You are right though - I should probably verify via experimentation that the high frequencies are in fact causing the fatigue. I'll give 'er a shot.

[n_maher]

I'm with postjack -- it's probably the source material, but a second set of cans could cure your blues, perhaps the DT770's for metal.

Funny, I find the bottom end of the DT770s fatiguing. Of course I've never heard a Beyer I liked so it could be me that just doesn't agree with them.

[Dash]

My experience with the DT990s was not so great either. I could never figure out whether the highs were exaggerated/prominate or whether the mids were recessed. Either way I always felt like the sound curve was "U" shaped with the mids being recessed compared with the bottom and top. Yet is was one of the weirdest bass responses too. It did not lack extension, but seemed to feel lifeless, no impact. The lack of bass impact may have also contributed to my less than stellar impression of the mids and the cans overall. They did not stay very long with me, needless to say. But they are super comfy and built like tanks. ( the consolation prize for losing)

I threw several amps at them with no real success. The amp will never change the inherrent sound of the phones.

2 cents.

[oogabooga]

I have once, and I think I liked the HD600 better. I compared the two in a store, and did not spend a great deal of time with them, but I suspect that one of them is the can for me. I wonder how many other people besides me are hoping to get a second hand pair as folks downsize to fund their HD 800s?

Actually, John, who's a fellow Canuck, is selling his HD600s atm. I bought myself a used pair recently and listen to plenty of techno/electronica with them with very pleasing results. No fatigue, except occasionally the clamping force of the Senns on my exceptionally large brain.

[acidbasement]

Actually, John, who's a fellow Canuck, is selling his HD600s atm.

Yep, I saw his fs post. I probably will have to wait till spring or summer to get financial approval from my wife though, unless I sell my DT990s. I shall consider.

[cetoole]

perhaps the DT770's for metal.

That sounds like a pretty horrible idea to me, at least if you are referring to the Pro 770-80. These have got to be one of the worst sounding headphones I have ever tried. Never heard the 990 though, but looking at Headroom's graphs, I wont be going out of my way to hear it anytime soon, considering my taste in music. Every time I have heard the 880 it wasnt bloody aweful like the 770, but was a signature that I never enjoyed, especially with the brightness. The HD580/600 kept me happy for several years though, but I am favoring the planar sound more theses days.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, I know I'm in the minority, but I find the DT770's (I've used only the 600 ohm and 120 ohm versions, though) an excellent metal can. I like my metal to have bass.

But the usual recommendation of Grado's for metal doesn't apply here, methinks. I think Jack is onto something with the Sennheiser recommendation, that might be a better choice, it's just not something I'd recommend, as I don't like them.

[cetoole]

Never tried the 600 or 120ohm versions, didnt even know they came in 120ohm. Senns would probably be a decent choice for the OP to try. Personally, I love the ESP/950 bass for metal more than any other headphone I have owned or borrowed.

[grawk]

speaking of which

koss ESP 950 electrostatic headphones, stereo headset - eBay (item 330303390861 end time Feb-01-09 16:30:46 PST)

[donunus]

ive had the dt990s (2005 edition). and the highs are painfully bright. grados are chocolatey smooth in comparison. The 990s made my ears ring after every 5 minutes of use or less depending on the music

REPLACE THE CANS

[apnk]

ive had the dt990s (2005 edition). and the highs are painfully bright. grados are chocolatey smooth in comparison. The 990s made my ears ring after every 5 minutes of use or less depending on the music

REPLACE THE CANS

Interesting, I find my MS2i's to be brighter than my DT990's, but my Beyers are the 32ohm version.

[acidbasement]

ive had the dt990s (2005 edition). and the highs are painfully bright. grados are chocolatey smooth in comparison. The 990s made my ears ring after every 5 minutes of use or less depending on the music

REPLACE THE CANS

That's funny; I found all the Grados I've tried (325i and below) way too bright for my tastes. I generally like how the dt990 sounds; I just find it fatiguing. I suspect a wee bit of roll-off of the extreme high frequencies would make them a great can for my tastes. I actually like the prominence of bass and treble. Being a drummer, I like to feel the bass drum-bass guitar chemistry, but being a bluegrass fan, I also like to hear the harmonics on a hot mandolin lead. Midrange schmidrange.

I think I'm going to grab a pair of Senn HD 600s though, as soon as I have the means. If they don't fatigue me the way the Beyers do, the Beyers will have to go.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

[Dash]

Well, the 600s will def be the yin to the DT990 yang. It will be a wonderful contrast and probably very informative.

[donunus]

Interesting, I find my MS2i's to be brighter than my DT990's, but my Beyers are the 32ohm version.

Mine were also the 32 ohm version dt990 2005. The grados are brighter at the lower highs and upper mids making it sound more forward but when starting from around 9kz to 12khz the dt990s are very evil I actually bought them because I heard that they had sparkle which i like but i guess i wasn't ready for this much of it. I guess I like my sparkle to be flat and extended to 20khz like good speakers and not a big spike at the sibilance region.

[acidbasement]

I guess I like my sparkle to be flat and extended to 20khz like good speakers and not a big spike at the sibilance region.

Yup, it's a sparkle that comes at a cost. For some music it works, while for others it detracts IMO.