postjack Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 how do y'all like the bryston 4B? there is one on Avon for $350. not sure if it's stereo or mono, I've emailer the seller.
Dusty Chalk Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 Bryston == good. Some of the best speaker sound I've ever heard (my boss' office rig) includes a Bryston power amp.
tyrion Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 check out his new beta site odysseyaudiousa.com If you call Klaus he can be very helpful I've spoken to Klaus on a couple of occasions and he is a great guy. I still may buy a pair of the Mono Extreme amps to compare to the McCormack.
kpeezy Posted January 13, 2009 Report Posted January 13, 2009 how do y'all like the bryston 4B? there is one on Avon for $350. not sure if it's stereo or mono, I've emailer the seller. I was thinking about buying that myself. I found a Mcintosh MA6200 the other day locally for $400. I'm going to give it a shot if I can.
postjack Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Posted January 15, 2009 any love for the adcom gfa-555 ii? one on agon for $400, good reviews, lots of power.
VPI Posted January 18, 2009 Report Posted January 18, 2009 Jack, I have a pair of Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme SEs hooked up now and find them to be very good for the price. I haven't compared them to my Halcros in this system but I have not been itching to dig out all the gear and buy some speakers to go with my main system since getting these amps. I am running them with a Modwright preamp into Audio Physic Virgo IIIs. They are huge on dynamics but also get the little things right. Much better than the Rogue Audio Stereo 90 that I had hooked up before them. I have not fed them anything that they did not like and I have been very impressed with them in the 6 months I have had them. I have not run them balanced yet but I might have to try it some day. The Odyssey guys will tell you that you have to keep them on 24x7 to sound there best so that is what I do but I am not sure if the improvements I heard were just getting used to the sound or if the big amps need to stay charged.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 What I find most difficult in your case is determining if the bass issues are the only concern you eventually might wish to take care of. Were it the only point, therefore it's important knowing if those problems are just a matter of lack of power, room integration -which comprises speaker placement and room acoustic treatments-, damping factor, speakers' character, personal preference or even are related to specific recordings. I suppose the sensible way to face this is trying to measure your room-speakers' response, but that's difficult and needs some specific gear and skills. You might try to place the speakers in different places into your room to see if you can getter a more satisfying bass, than assessing if there are other issues in the sound which aren't of your liking. So I started reading the Echo Busters site a little bit, and reading about other people's room treatment experiences. First, I moved my listening chair almost into the foyer, which is weird, but bass response improved. Second, I pulled down the huge mirror that is on the side wall in front of my left speaker. Low and behold, I never realized how excitable my room was before. Treble, particularly on electric guitar, smoothed out considerably. Since I've once again been shown how simple room adjustments can make dramatic differences, I'm shelving the new amp idea for the immediate future. I may invest in some Echo Busters or Bass Busters. My room is a hot mess though. Here is a sketch I just did in paint to show y'all what I'm workin' with: One thing though, the left wall is further in then I drew it, the couch is much closer to the left speaker. The red squares are windows, and you can see I have two large openings: one into the dining room on the right, and one into the foyer on the back wall. You can see I have my chair now backed up a little bit into the foyer. Previously it was maybe 3-4 feet forward.
Dusty Chalk Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 Why are your speakers perpendicular to your TV viewing area? I have a friend who has a very similar setup, and he has the speakers towards the openings (Gallo Reference 3.0's), and that works out pretty well. And yeezh on the windows and fireplace -- I don't know what to do about the fireplace (cover it with felt?), but the windows should be easy enough -- heavy cloth drapes.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 Why are your speakers perpendicular to your TV viewing area? I have a friend who has a very similar setup, and he has the speakers towards the openings (Gallo Reference 3.0's), and that works out pretty well. And yeezh on the windows and fireplace -- I don't know what to do about the fireplace (cover it with felt?), but the windows should be easy enough -- heavy cloth drapes. The speakers are perpendicular to the TV viewing area because that way they are firing down the room longways. I have a totally separate and very cheap 5.1 setup for the TV. Yeah, the windows are tough, but I'll experiment some more and see what I can do. For the fireplace I was thinking maybe one of the Double Busters (absorption and diffusion). Also maybe some Corner Busters for the ceiling corners.
Dusty Chalk Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 The corner busters work surprisingly well -- I've heard a room treated with them. Dew et.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 The corner busters work surprisingly well -- I've heard a room treated with them. Dew et. sweet. when i read on the web site they cancel the "megaphone effect" i knew immediately what they were talking about. seems like a no brainer purchase, just need to save the dough.
deepak Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 You should look into making sure both your speakers are the same size first, I bet that is causing some issues
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 So I started reading the Echo Busters site a little bit, and reading about other people's room treatment experiences. First, I moved my listening chair almost into the foyer, which is weird, but bass response improved. Second, I pulled down the huge mirror that is on the side wall in front of my left speaker. Low and behold, I never realized how excitable my room was before. Treble, particularly on electric guitar, smoothed out considerably. Since I've once again been shown how simple room adjustments can make dramatic differences, I'm shelving the new amp idea for the immediate future. I may invest in some Echo Busters or Bass Busters. My room is a hot mess though. Here is a sketch I just did in paint to show y'all what I'm workin' with: One thing though, the left wall is further in then I drew it, the couch is much closer to the left speaker. The red squares are windows, and you can see I have two large openings: one into the dining room on the right, and one into the foyer on the back wall. You can see I have my chair now backed up a little bit into the foyer. Previously it was maybe 3-4 feet forward. Glad you've been able to improve things in the right direction. Your room is a difficult one for the openings to adjacent rooms, the fireplace and all those windows. I guess that by placing your listening chair right in the opening to the foyer puts you out of the reach of the room width's mode and also, for not having a rear wall behind where modes are at their max, you can diminish a lot the room's length mode. The only major issues I can see from that drawing are that the speakers seem to be quite close together, maybe at less than 6' measured from tweeters centers, and also that you're listening very far away from them at probably double that distance, maybe more. While this has proved to have some benefits on the frequency response -which I think is more important-, could be causing an imprecise and narrow imaging. What happens when you place the listening chair in the middle of the room or closer to the speakers than that point? Not suggesting that's better, just trying to get an idea how are working your room's acoustics.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 What happens when you place the listening chair in the middle of the room or closer to the speakers than that point? Not suggesting that's better, just trying to get an idea how are working your room's acoustics. My speakers are 5 ft apart, tweeter to tweeter, and I currently sit 12 ft away. When I move the chair closer, bass response isn't as exciting, i.e. I don't get that rolling across the room bass "feel", and midrange isn't quite as smooth and inviting, particularly in the male vocals area. When I took down the large mirror on the left wall, not only did the highs smooth considerably, but the soundstage jumped WAY out into the left, it was very surprising. For the first time it appeared that certain instruments and vocals weren't coming just out of the left speaker, but out of the area to the left of and the front left of the speaker. There is still a slight pull to the right when it comes to the bass and the lower midrange, which I think is due to the large opening in the right wall. Its possible that after some treatments, or other furniture/decoration rearrangements, I might be able to move the chair back into the room some more.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 You should look into making sure both your speakers are the same size first, I bet that is causing some issues When I was doing my lil' MS Paint drawing up above, I specifically wondered which HC smartass would point out the speaker size issue first.
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 I see... and what if you place the speakers a bit further into the room and one or two feet away between them?
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 I see... and what if you place the speakers a bit further into the room and one or two feet away between them? So pull the speakers forward a bit and separate them by a couple of feet? I will try this next time I listen and report back here.
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 Yep, that's it. Do it at small increments and if possible, leave marks on the floor on the positions you find the sound interesting going in the direction you want it to go. Don't give up if finding a "good enough" position at first try or getting worse sound. Remember you're trying to get a right tonal balance in the first place, better imaging is just a bonus. I like using mono recordings for this, so you just have to focus on tonal balance and not spoiling the bold, solid and coherent central image.
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 i sit in a rough equilateral triangle, with my speakers. they are three and a half feet from the back wall, and three feet from the side walls, 9 feet apart and about 10 feet from the listening position. i find this works quite well. sounds like a pretty big room. the trouble for me comes in that my den is the largest room in my house, but since it is a living space I'm can't just throw out the couch, TV stand, etc to make more room to space my speakers out more. i mean its in the realm of possibility for me to do so but I'm not going to. I just experimented some and managed to get a couple more feet between the speakers, but it feels funny because then the left speaker is just about parallel with the end of the couch. i can't help but think this is a bad thing. the sound did exactly what I thought it would, which is expand the soundstage horizontally, which is nice, but it didn't really effect the tonal balance like the good el doctor de espanol was speaking of. I think I just have too many things in the room exciting the sound, so when I crank up the volume to really feel that bass pedal in "Can Utility and the Coastliners", the treble just gets to harsh.
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 Sure Postjack, all those windows and the TV screen are causing primary and secondary reflections, which are more noticeable on treble, but those are easy to manage with drapes, curtains, tapestry... and also by toe-in depending on the dispersion pattern of your tweeters. At this stage just try to get a good balance for the bass, make sure you don't have boominess, too long decays or other issues polluting the bass precision and balance to the midrange. If treble is screaming at loud volume, you can handle that later with room treatment.
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 I would include in that group also people who didn't choose the right speakers for their room's size and construction quality hehehe. But minor treatments to cover glass and reflecting surfaces on the primary reflection areas are something you cannot skip if you found the place to get the most important things right.
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 i worried about the acoustic properties of my living room until i moved the furniture in. Hehehehe, I had a pair of Sonus Faber Amati which were sounding OK on our previous (rented) flat, a very well constructed place with 1 1/2' brick and mortar walls, marble floors, big room with an irregular shape (no parallel walls and only 1 square angled corner)... When we moved to this place I was fearing the worst, and it was the worst. There was no way I could make this place handle the bass output of those monsters. I tried any imaginable placement to no avail. The best thing is that it was very easy afterwards finding the right place for the Merlins. I haven't needed any room treatment and placement is very living friendly IMO, and wife, the important one, agrees
postjack Posted January 24, 2009 Author Report Posted January 24, 2009 ah, you have merlins? what model?
Torpedo Posted January 24, 2009 Report Posted January 24, 2009 VSM-MX. A fair compromise which works very well into the room.
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