Dreadhead Posted May 1, 2009 Report Posted May 1, 2009 Well I got worried because when I switched to my unused port of the switch I heard the output of the other DACs (WTF!!!) after checking some stuff it occurred to me to check and see if I could hear anything with the DAC actually attached to the port but not putting out music. I discovered that when the XLR port is attached none of the music leaks through from the other inputs regardless of amp volume. Disaster averted. Anyway this made me wonder what's that hiss? Well it turns out that the DAC3 is the only one of the DACs that when you crank the GS-X to max volume you still hear nothing. The DAC2 has some noise and the Mytek a little more again. At listening volumes you can't hear anything but it is a difference.
Upstateguy Posted May 1, 2009 Report Posted May 1, 2009 Sources are beginning to drive me mad... Come on Dinnster, you can't leave us hanging.....
The Monkey Posted May 2, 2009 Author Report Posted May 2, 2009 Come on Dinnster, you can't leave us hanging..... I know, I know...I've got to get to it. But now I'm drinking a big beer and I have a hard time hooking stuff up when that happens.
screaming oranges Posted May 2, 2009 Report Posted May 2, 2009 ...it turns out that the DAC3 is the only one of the DACs that when you crank the GS-X to max volume you still hear nothing. The DAC2 has some noise and the Mytek a little more again. At listening volumes you can't hear anything but it is a difference. This is pretty important to me. It is actually one of the first tests I do will all equipment: no music, max out volume, listen for noise. Thanks for the input on that.
Dreadhead Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 Yesterday I rearranged the cables so that all three DACs are using the mogami gold interconnects I have (and hence look identical). I then had my wife reconnect them in any order she felt like so I am now doing a blind test I have no clue which one is which and I am not doing the test to find the one difference I found above (noise floor) and at normal listening levels I can't hear if I prefer one or another. I can't hear any difference One thing that I have gotten is that the Mytek is an amazing value. It's better than the DAC1 for about the same price. I have not tried out its headphone amp but I'm seriously considering one for me to take to work or a rig somewhere else.
Dreadhead Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) On a side note. I have confirmed that though the specs for the Bel Canto say 24/96 on the non-usb inputs since it use reclocking to 24/192 on the inputs (Cirrus CS8421) and the reclocking chip supports 24/192 then it supports up to 24/192. I'm playing 24/192 right now on all 3 so I'm sure it's true Weird that bel Canto only claims 24/96 Edited May 3, 2009 by Dreadhead
screaming oranges Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 On a side note. I have confirmed that though the specs for the Bel Canto say 24/96 on the non-usb inputs since it use reclocking to 24/192 on the inputs (Cirrus CS8421) and the reclocking chip supports 24/192 then it supports up to 24/192. I'm playing 24/192 right now on all 3 so I'm sure it's true Weird that bel Canto only claims 24/96 I found the Bel Canto Dac3 manual online, and it mentions 24/192. Here is the download page: Bel Canto Look at page 4, right-hand side column, 4th bullet point down from the top. It doesn't say it is limited to certain inputs.
Dreadhead Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 I found the Bel Canto Dac3 manual online, and it mentions 24/192. Here is the download page: Bel Canto Look at page 4, right-hand side column, 4th bullet point down from the top. It doesn't say it is limited to certain inputs. The DAC chip opperates at 24/192 (after the resampler chip) but what I'm referring to is this spec here for the inputs: Bel Canto
screaming oranges Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 The DAC chip opperates at 24/192 (after the resampler chip) but what I'm referring to is this spec here for the inputs: Bel Canto Page 9 on the manual uses the phrase "at least" in reference to the specs for the inputs. (sorry, I've just been reading up on this unti since I will be getting it from AB soon).
Dreadhead Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 Page 9 on the manual uses the phrase "at least" in reference to the specs for the inputs. (sorry, I've just been reading up on this unti since I will be getting it from AB soon). Nothing to be sorry for but your first point was not accurate because with resampling dacs like the DAC3/Benchmark DAC1/ Mytek Stereo96 the DAC chip operates at 24/192 because it's behind the upsampling chip and everything is upsampled to 24/196. The spec sheet posted on their website says 24/96 I did not go into the manual to find that it's "at least" which is rather hidden in my opinion. If they can do 24/192 then they should state it and they don't.
screaming oranges Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 Nothing to be sorry for but your first point was not accurate because with resampling dacs like the DAC3/Benchmark DAC1/ Mytek Stereo96 the DAC chip operates at 24/192 because it's behind the upsampling chip and everything is upsampled to 24/196. The spec sheet posted on their website says 24/96 I did not go into the manual to find that it's "at least" which is rather hidden in my opinion. If they can do 24/192 then they should state it and they don't. Yeah, I was inaccurate the 1st time. Kinda sped-read the post. Anyhow, first time I see a company downplaying their product's potential.
aardvark baguette Posted May 3, 2009 Report Posted May 3, 2009 I have no clue which one is which and I am not doing the test to find the one difference I found above (noise floor) and at normal listening levels I can't hear if I prefer one or another. I can't hear any difference Nothing to feel bad about. Source differences can be much more subtle than amp differences, and can take longer to identify. At least in my experience.
The Monkey Posted May 3, 2009 Author Report Posted May 3, 2009 I have no clue which one is which and I am not doing the test to find the one difference I found above (noise floor) and at normal listening levels I can't hear if I prefer one or another. I can't hear any difference It's refreshing to see someone admit to this while doing a comparison.
morphsci Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 Yep, I've kept two sources for comparison for months before making a decision. Also thanks for the info on the Mytek, it led me to look at the Mytek 8x192 ADDA. An interesting unit and very reasonably priced for its features.
The Monkey Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Posted May 4, 2009 Listening with the Signatures tonight. The theme song from Kids in the Hall has been surprisingly useful for comparison. The north star is a more forward DAC with a bit larger soundstage. But on this track, while the ECD-1 didn't do as nice a job with the guitars, it did a better job with the multiple symbal crashes. I guess I'd characterize the ECD-1 as more romantic/dramatic and the north star as more impactful/exciting. This comparison is going to be a mess. I got thrown for a loop tonight. Using the Skipjack, now it's the ECD-1 that is sounding more forward. Weird. I'm using the SRM1/MK2 as the amp now, so that could account for some differences, but the mids on the ECD-1 seem to outshine the North Star pretty easily. Volume matching could be an issue here. Regardless, the ECD-1 is doing better with vocals, especially female. The mids just sound great. Better than the north star. And while the ECD-1 sounds just a bit more congested than the NS, I think that may be due to the more forward mid presentation, which seems to de-emphasize some of the more complex musical passages. However, if you listen enough, the ECD-1 still gets it right. It seems that the NS designers chose to give equal prominence to both. A matter of taste perhaps. The NS might be a little blacker between the notes. And the ECD-1 still has the more lush sound. This is not to say that the ECD-1 is forgiving in the mids. I'd say defintely not. The ECD-1 seems to do a better job (by a fair amount) with female vocals, and that is important to me. Some classical tomorrow should make this even more difficult. For now, advantage Electrocompaniet.
atothex Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 Maybe it's just me, but if I'm listening to two different things and find an initial difference, then keep listening and comparing back-to-back for a while, they eventually get harder and harder to distinguish. Maybe because my brain is sick of trying so hard to compare? This ever happen to y'all?
grawk Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 it's easy to hear big differences. The brain corrects for everything tho, given enough time.
The Monkey Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Posted May 4, 2009 have you thought about getting a real source? And abandon team $1k source? Never! Well maybe not.
Azazel Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 Maybe it's just me, but if I'm listening to two different things and find an initial difference, then keep listening and comparing back-to-back for a while, they eventually get harder and harder to distinguish. Maybe because my brain is sick of trying so hard to compare? This ever happen to y'all? +1, but this happens to everybody and is the reason why 'intensive' blind testing is of no real use here. Say try ten or more times to tell apart sources to have statistical 'proof'... Different from a blind listening test as discussed here (or as I understand it).
Dreadhead Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 Maybe it's just me, but if I'm listening to two different things and find an initial difference, then keep listening and comparing back-to-back for a while, they eventually get harder and harder to distinguish. Maybe because my brain is sick of trying so hard to compare? This ever happen to y'all? +1 for me too. That's why I never return more than3 times
Dreadhead Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 Volume matching could be an issue here. No Multimeter? Just a sinusoidal track and measure the ac voltage at the outputs and match that way. Or are the volumes not controllable?
Dusty Chalk Posted May 4, 2009 Report Posted May 4, 2009 That last one -- it's just a source selector, not a preamp.
The Monkey Posted May 4, 2009 Author Report Posted May 4, 2009 Exactly. It would be nice to be able to trim the volume using the Skipjack.
Dreadhead Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Well I'm keeping the DAC3 and sending the other two back. For the first time I used the SE ports on the GS-X and I discovered that the Weiss DAC2 has a massively higher noise floor when running SE heaphones out of my GS-X (audibly loud). I'm not sure why this would be but it appears that there is noise on the + and the - but it's in phase so when running balanced heaphones the result is much less noise but with unbalanced you get it. All I know is I'm not paying for it. My incoming Qualias do have a balanced cable but I also plan to try the SE stock cable. Also I discovered that the DAC2 inverts the signal at least compared to all the other DACs and the original signal (which doesn't particularly matter, but is odd). I found this because I've been messing with Audacity to compare the outputs of each of the DACs into a ADC I have and it works pretty well.
aardvark baguette Posted May 5, 2009 Report Posted May 5, 2009 Whoa. Glad to learn of this development.
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