DACing Off

[Regg]

Listening with the Signatures tonight. The theme song from Kids in the Hall has been surprisingly useful for comparison. The north star is a more forward DAC with a bit larger soundstage. But on this track, while the ECD-1 didn't do as nice a job with the guitars, it did a better job with the multiple symbal crashes. I guess I'd characterize the ECD-1 as more romantic/dramatic and the north star as more impactful/exciting. This comparison is going to be a mess.

All things being relative, which DAC would you say is more dynamic, natural, smoother? A senseless question maybe, but I was just curious...\

[The Monkey]

Tough call. Right now, I'd say the north star is more dynamic, the ECD-1 smoother. Natural is anybody's guess.

[The Monkey]

feel free to send that ECD-1 to me for a second opinion.

I keep forgetting, did you have a north star at some point?

[The Monkey]

I think I like the north star more than the ECD-1

[CD44hi]

I think the Northstar is a very good dac. The instrument placement, "headstage" etc, was very accurate. Another unit in that ballpark, but much more laidback, with good staying and imaging was the MF Trivista 21, however, it tended to be a bit rolled off on the highs (unlike the NSMkII)

I have not heard the ECD-1, but when I compared that very same unit you currently have to a Burmester 006 (as a DAC) it held its own pretty well.

BTW, I miss all that stuff!!!

[Guest sacd lover]

The best older dac I have heard is the Monarchy Audio 33 dac/ preamp. The 33 has a big, bold, impactful sound with a fast, upfront character, but a surprisingly refined treble. I love this dac. I am even thinking of selling one of my Zap filter dacs because I like 33 better .... and I have always been very happy with the Zap filter Zhalou.

The 33 has a substantial full size chassis, AES/EBU/- coax and toslink digital inputs, an analog volume control with both rca and balanced outputs and another single ended/rca fixed level dac output. The dac also has two switchable analog inputs to act as a preamp for two other sources. These units were $1439 new and you can pick them up for generally around $500 used. I managed to get lucky and buy one that was only $395 shipped.

AudiogoN ForSale: Monarchy Model 33

[swt61]

Nice score Earl!

I had been looking at the same model, but the lack of a balanced analog input won't suit the needs of my balanced system.

It's a real surprise to hear you say you prefer it to the Zhalooser101, and the Zapped Opus.

[peanutbutterjam]

Hi, someone at my area is selling his Theta DS-Pro Gen III DAC for $600, and the Wadia 12 DAC for $520. Any opinions on these 2 DACs? How would they compare with modern pieces of the that price?

Thanks! Would love to hear some thoughts.

[The Monkey]

Now that I have the Skipjack and the CO2, I should be able to do a pretty good A/B of the north star and the ECD-1 (single-ended). The CO2 will allow me to split the optical out of my iMac to both the ECD-1 and the north star. The skipjack will switch the source on the fly at the touch of a button, nearly silently. I may also be able to A/B them balanced. I hope to be able to get more specific with respect to my previous comparisons.

[Voltron]

That is very cool Dinny. When you decide to come to CJ09, please be sure to bring both because we could do some neat comparos.

[Dreadhead]

I've got a very similar setup going with my Kramer VS-4X swticher. It's very close to silent during the switch and entirely passive. It's not a passive preamp but a straight switch.

Right now I have a Bel Canto DAC3, Mytek Stereo96 and Weiss DAC2 all hooked up and volume matched for a little A/B/C action.

[aardvark baguette]

I've got a very similar setup going with my Kramer VS-4X swticher. It's very close to silent during the switch and entirely passive. It's not a passive preamp but a straight switch.

Right now I have a Bel Canto DAC3, Mytek Stereo96 and Weiss DAC2 all hooked up and volume matched for a little A/B/C action.

I'd be interested in reading how bad the Dac2 stomps the Dac3, Dread.

[Hopstretch]

I'd be interested in reading how bad the Dac2 stomps the Dac3, Dread.

+1. Give us data or die.

[Dreadhead]

Setup:

I have the following:

1. Bel Canto DAC3
   
2. Mytek Stereo96
   
3. Weiss DAC3
   

They are all running off a 24/96 out of the Foobar2k using the SoX resampler with linear phase and alaising allowed (not that matters in this case since it's upsampling not down sampling). The signal goes out optically from my Edirol FA-66 and then to my DEQ 2496. Then to the DAC2 which has the added feature of a AES out and SPDIF out (reclocked and de-jittered, or I can change it if I like) that are hooked up to the Mytek and DAC3.

These are all hooked up to the Kramer VS-4X mechanical 4 way switch that outputs to my GS-X. This thing is f&*king awesome: under $150 from B&H and virtually no switch bounce and absolutely transparent.

To make sure everything was matched up I used my trusty little multimeter and a 1kHz signal and used the analog volume control on the Mytek and the Digital Volume on the Weiss to turn them down until they were well within a very small voltage band with the DAC3. The volume control is 0.5dB steps and the mismatch is less than 1/5 of that between any of these.

Honorable Mention:

The Weiss Firewire interface kicks serious amounts of ass. It is very very nice and very configurable but due to lack of ways to hook up 3 DACS any other way I needed to use my Edirol FA-66 in the manner listed above. I am really really impressed with it and it took 192/24 with no problems whatsoever through a single wire. Very impressive.

Story so far:

Volume matching makes things really really hard to compare. The first thing is that these DACs are all very very close, none of that weird harshness up high in the Benchmark DAC1 (my only issue with that DAC). I haven't come up with anything that really separates one from the other yet.

This was about what I was expecting though because earlier in the week I matched up the built in DAC in my DEQ to my DAC3 and that race was very very close and I didn't have time to really come to any conclusion before the new toys arrived. All I know is that for the DEQ2496 sounds better than its price would ever lead you to believe.

I have another 6 days with this setup before I have to ship the Weiss, Mytek or both back

[aardvark baguette]

It can take a little while to discover the deficiencies and charms of a dac.

When I upgraded from an EMU 404 USB to the DAC3, I could tell some difference right away, but after a few months or so with the DAC3, I went back to the EMU to compare and practically threw up.

[Duggeh]

I can concur with that sentiment. Source downgrades after firm establishment of an upgrade are far more glaring to the ear than the difference of the upgrade in the first place.

[postjack]

I can concur with that sentiment. Source downgrades after firm establishment of an upgrade are far more glaring to the ear than the difference of the upgrade in the first place.

Believe it or not, the ear can eventually adjust to a source downgrade, at least in my experience. That is, if one considers going from the 840C to Denon DA-500 a sufficient enough downgrade. At first the midrange of the DA-500 seemed a little hot and thin, but my ear has accepted this and adjusted to it. I can still tell it's there sometimes, but it doesn't bother me.

But I bet going back to something like an 0404 would be difficult or impossible to adjust to.

[aardvark baguette]

I did go back to stock HD650 cables, after selling my cardas cable. Not as good, but I'm managing.

[Dreadhead]

That's my biggest problem right now, my DAC3 is supposed to be a lot better than the Mytek or my DEQ and it's all I've listened to at home for months (maybe even a year?). Currently I'm not seeing it especially not $1600-$2400 worth.

I'm actually thinking of asking my wife to hide the back the switch and move around cables so I wouldn't know which was which. It's reached that point

Edited April 30, 2009 by Dreadhead

[Dreadhead]

blind is better. i blind test as much gear as possible.

I know. That's why I'm there. But I was hoping to get it down to two, triple blind is a bit of a PITA

[screaming oranges]

The best older dac I have heard is the Monarchy Audio 33 dac/ preamp. The 33 has a big, bold, impactful sound with a fast, upfront character, but a surprisingly refined treble. I love this dac. I am even thinking of selling one of my Zap filter dacs because I like 33 better .... and I have always been very happy with the Zap filter Zhalou.

The 33 has a substantial full size chassis, AES/EBU/- coax and toslink digital inputs, an analog volume control with both rca and balanced outputs and another single ended/rca fixed level dac output. The dac also has two switchable analog inputs to act as a preamp for two other sources. These units were $1439 new and you can pick them up for generally around $500 used. I managed to get lucky and buy one that was only $395 shipped.

AudiogoN ForSale: Monarchy Model 33

The only DAC I've heard is the Monarchy M24, which I got for aprox $700 two years ago from a head-fier. I bought it because I had available funds at the time. This is supposedly better than the M33, form what I have read, not heard myself.

Sadly, I have nothing to compare this M24 too, since it is the only DAC I've ever heard. Sometimes I think I am not appreciating this unit as I should because I have not heard others.

[Icarium]

I wasn't a fan of that DAC though admittedly I used pretty meh tubes. The soundstage was the smallest out of anything else I've ever heard.

[Dusty Chalk]

i'm hoping that was a funny joke.

[The Monkey]

Sources are beginning to drive me mad...

[Dreadhead]

lol