cary sli-80 vs sli-80 f1

[Aimless1]

I'm beginning to compose my "short list" for a head amp. One of the amps I've been looking at is the Cary SLI-80 and the F1 version only sold by Upscale Audio Cary Audio SLI-80 Signature F1. I'm somewhat concerned about the scorching heat these amps are reputed to produce and not convinced the F1 upgrades are worth it for headphone amp use. I have not had an opportunity to hear one, but understand the sound is not for everyone, but I don't know exactly what that means. The overall design seems to be good and it has been around since 1997. It has stood the test of time.

Is anyone willing to comment about this amp and/or the F1 upgrade?

[postjack]

To me the Cary stuff is too warm and round sounding, at least with headphones. Not enough focus and attack.

[tyrion]

Agree with both posts and they are hot, not warm.

[Aimless1]

I don't quite get "round sounding". Neither google nor wikipedia were any help. I get that it's warm and not neutral. Am I understanding right that it is warmer than most tube amps?

[tyrion]

I don't quite get "round sounding". Neither google nor wikipedia were any help. I get that it's warm and not neutral. Am I understanding right that it is warmer than most tube amps?

I interpreted that as meaning rolled off on top and bottom but I'll will let Reks and Jack comment.

[recstar24]

To me the Cary stuff is too warm and round sounding, at least with headphones. Not enough focus and attack.

I concur - I would go as far and say at times it can sound bloated. If you think of every single note and sound having an initial attack (transient), the tone of the sound itself (body), and the release (decay), the cary 300sei and sli80 are very rounded and full in the body, the decay is extended, but that initial attack that gives music its snappy, dynamic character is muddled due to the emphasis in the tonal and decay area of the note, if that makes sense.

[postjack]

I interpreted that as meaning rolled off on top and bottom but I'll will let Reks and Jack comment.

yup.

[jp11801]

bloated sounding mid range nice for some recordings but may not serve your total collection as well as other amps would

[Aimless1]

I concur - I would go as far and say at times it can sound bloated. If you think of every single note and sound having an initial attack (transient), the tone of the sound itself (body), and the release (decay), the cary 300sei and sli80 are very rounded and full in the body, the decay is extended, but that initial attack that gives music its snappy, dynamic character is muddled due to the emphasis in the tonal and decay area of the note, if that makes sense.

Nice description. Now I understand I can see where the sound may not appeal to all, and in fact, may only appeal to a few ... at least for headphone use. So a well built amp with a limited audience.

[Dusty Chalk]

It sounds great with certain phones, but I agree with the "too much" comment -- only recommended if you have the equivalent of a sweet tooth for the overly tubey sound.

[Icarium]

I haven't heard this amp but I have heard the cary 300 sei. I wouldn't call that amp accurate.

[dsavitsk]

Is anyone willing to comment about this amp and/or the F1 upgrade?

In general, the issue with Cary amps is in the power supply. Typically several large, slow, caps with resistors instead of chokes. Since the caps don't stick up on this amp, you could rebuild on the inside to fix this without it showing. You could also probably just add some small film bypasses for an easy fix. A quick Google search didn't pull up the schematic, but someone must have it.

They also tend to run everything right at the edge of dissipation limits (tubes and components.) You should be able to dial things back a bit if you are willing to get in and get your hands dirty. But, you could also build a much better amp for way less money if you are willing to do that.

As for the "upgrades" ...

Jensen oil and copper capacitors: Gives you the midrange we crave by giving you a more pleasing midband, while increasing clarity & texture.

These are fine caps, but they are not that expensive. A pair in the required size is about $45 at parts connexion right now.

I say that, but it may be that their phase splitter needs a whole host of caps. It isn't clear whether they use these for all 8 that are likely required in a Schmitt -- I tend to doubt it, but it is worth a look under the hood.

Hexfreds in the power supply: Results in better pitch and definition especially when music becomes complex, and is most helpful in the bass arena.

I thought it used 5U4's ... Anyway, another $5 upgrade. Makes you wonder what the stock version uses.

CD input wired with Kimber Kable: We could actually do all of them, but it could get quite expensive. So we did one input and you put your most critical component there. Want them ALL done that way? Call me to get one special-built.

That's nearly $2 worth of wire to rewire that one input. And, even if you are prone to thinking that wire matters, if you can tell the difference between that and some other copper for that short run, you have better ears than me.

WBT Speaker terminals: Other folks will always refer to "WBT Style" terminals. These are the real ones which cost many times more, but hey dude

[kirkwall]

Hi,

I've owned the SLi-80, the Signature and now have on long-term loan the Half-Assed F1, which includes the Jensens, hexfreds and Grayhills but not the Kimber or faceplate upgrades or the direct-coupling and I'd say it's the same amp with different flavouring, assuming the stock tubes. I happen to like a more direct, pacey tube sound and prefer the Manley gear I've heard/owned in this respect but the SLi-family midrange is seductive and its HP section is excellent -- powerful and well-balanced, though a little saggy-bottomed. The one I'm listening to now has 6CA7s as the outputs and it's a MUCH cleaner, tighter sound with good bass definition, though at the expense of those liquid mids, which seem to be a strong point of EL34s especially (to me ears).

With 6CA7s or perhaps some very good KT88s it's still a competitive design for both speakers and HPs, I think. It has great flexibility in terms of retubing and can be bought and sold fairly easily. It's a kind of accomplished journeyman of amps and is certainly very musical s stock but it can seem slow and soft and un-urgent, for lack of a better term. I thought it sounded great with Beyers, very good with RS1s and lousy with HD650s; good with MA and Focal and less so with Spendors. I wouldn't spring for the F1 version, even used, unless the spread was less than 400.00 or so, which it tends not to be. The Sig is the sweet spot in that lineup.

best,

k

[Aimless1]

I happen to like a more direct, pacey tube sound and prefer the Manley gear I've heard/owned

Can you elaborate....what is it that you prefer in the Manley gear?

It sounds great with certain phones, but I agree with the "too much" comment -- only recommended if you have the equivalent of a sweet tooth for the overly tubey sound.

Cryptic but exactly what I need to hear. I'm not looking for a tubey sound drenched in honey.

Although I'm no DIY, I learned from dsavitsk's analysis of the F1 upgrade. Enlightning.

[4N6]

I have had the Cary SLI-80 F1 Signature for a few years now. With certain headphones, the sound is quite wonderful. My favorite combination is this amp with the JVC DX1000's. Very good synergy and a very seductive sound. Accurate? Not very. But with sound that beautiful, it was easy not care about the accuracy and simply sit down and enjoy the music. I thought it was NOT a good match with the Audio Techinca W5000's, and a pretty good match with everything else I tried.

I would agree that it is more midrange centric, but tube choices go a long way toward getting a more even tonal balance. I got terrific results using SEC 6550's as the power tube. I also had mine direct coupled and changed to triode-only. As I did not compare before and after, I am not sure what changes this might have done to the overall sound.

From my limited experience, I would say that this is a very good, but not great headphone amp. However, if you need a "very good" headphone amp, and the ability to drive speakers, there is very little else out there that competes.

[kirkwall]

Can you elaborate....what is it that you prefer in the Manley gear?

I like the EL84 sound, Manley-style better than the El34/6550/KT88 sound, Cary-style, but it's purely personal preference. The Manley gear I have owned (Stingray/Shrimp/Mahi) tends to sacrifice a little midrange presence and liquidity for speed and slam in the bass and I love the dynamics of music presented in this way. The new Stingray and Manta Ray (?) also feature headphone jacks and, apparently, iPod docks but they've been static-demo'd for a while now and still aren't for sale, so hard to say if they'd compete well with the Cary.

I agree with 4N6 that the Cary is a very good all-rounder, at least a very good HP amp and a very good speaker amp, once retubed. But for the price of the F1 new you can get an excellent integrated and an excellent HP-only amp -- do have the chance to listen to any of your choices before buying?

best,

k