HD800? Another rumor?

[morphsci]

And then, oddly, Andy's SDS-XLR didn't do much with the Senns at the same event. Tube variation? Design variation? Different vodka consumed during build process? Who knows. Point is, Singlepower stuff is a crapshoot to both operate and evaluate.

Exactly my point regarding Mikhail induced variance. It is unlikely that any two amps, even of the same design are exactly alike, and there is certainly the possibility that they are, and sound, quite different.

[n_maher]

(* I did email Tim de Paravicini to ask what the respective output impedances were and he rather ducked the question, but did say the amp has a damping factor of around 12, for what that's worth.)

We'd need to know into what load it has that damping factor in order to be able to tell anything really. At least as far as may limited understanding can tell.

[Hopstretch]

We'd need to know into what load it has that damping factor in order to be able to tell anything really. At least as far as may limited understanding can tell.

Yeah, he just off-handedly recommended 50 Ohms as a suitable divider. Whether that's arbitrary or not, I don't know.

There are some pretty interesting measurements comparing the 800s to the 650s over here -- though I have no idea what the accompanying commentary says.

Look at these:

Those waterfalls are a bit of an eye-opener to me. Is it foolish to conjecture that that pronounced ringing at 6kHz is probably what is pissing people (like, say, me) off with plosives and sibilance on the 800s?

[kevin gilmore]

All right, here's what we can do, we = the other SP ES-1 owners reading this.

How about we all send our amps to KG? We cover our own two-way shipping charges of course, and parts costs, maybe include a bottle of Scotch too. He'll work on the amps like crazy while drinking the Scotch and fix them all up for us, better than new.

NO. And here is why. Its a whole bunch of work, and the amount of work depends

on which of the 7 known different types it is. The worst being the circuit board

version that neil has. The early circuit board versions are a lot easier.

The schematics have grown to a complete re-design of the power supply, and

some significant modifications to the amp which include replacing the 4 pots with

8 pots, and dealing with the coupling caps.

latest schematics here.

http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/singlehoures1fix.jpg

but really the bass really comes alive when you change out the .01 caps

with .05 caps.

http://gilmore.chem.northwestern.edu/singlehoures1psfix.jpg

but really a KGBH regulated supply is a much better idea.

So the parts list is

8 x 10 turn really good pots with 10 turn locking dials ($35 each) (bourns plus clarostat knob)

set of 4 amphenol or equivalent plugs $150 for the real thing, or half that for the chinese copy

BH power supply board with all parts (may or may not fit depending on chassis)

extra filament transformer

extra C- transformer and parts...

And 20 or more hours of labor. What you end up with is very stunning.

And how you adjust it is measure voltage between Tp1 and TP2 and adjust

rv1 for zero volts, then measure TP1 to ground and adjust rv4 for 200 volts.

Then adjust rv3 for zero volts to ground at TP3 and rv4 for zero volts to

ground at TP4.

[Dusty Chalk]

Looks more like 5kHz to me, and from here:

It's always been a problem in recording, because sibilance often manifests itself as an intense burst of high-frequency information around 5 kHz...

[Hopstretch]

I think that around that region the effect is going to be pretty much the same. Combined with the big frequency spike at 5K...

The Qualias are even worse in that range. (Nice suckout, too.)

[Beefy]

Those waterfalls are a bit of an eye-opener to me. Is it foolish to conjecture that that pronounced ringing at 6kHz is probably what is pissing people (like, say, me) off with plosives and sibilance on the 800s?

What strikes me the most is how the frequency response graphs from others sources differ so much from what Sennheiser is sending to users.

Yes, it is remarkably flat between 20Hz to 3kHz, but then shoots around all over the place. Quite different to the ~3dB range up to 12kHz you posted earlier.

[Hopstretch]

What strikes me the most is how the frequency response graphs from others sources differ so much from what Sennheiser is sending to users.

Possibly because theirs is a diffuse field measurement? I don't know. Maybe Dreadhead would help us out if we sent him some rum.

It certainly suggests that Stereophile did screw up their impedance measurement of the HD800, which showed a peak of only about 310 Ohms, since this latest curve agrees pretty much exactly with Headroom's one.

Edited July 12, 2009 by Hopstretch

[Voltron]

I guess I am curious about all these graphs and things, but I am listening to mine right now and they are really kicking ass. I am actually using the Moth 300B speaker amp with banana plus to XLR adapter. I was trying the AKG K340s that came with the adapter and they sound like pathetic hollow images in comparison. The HD800s are not a dead-bang sure thing best cans in the world, but they can sound simply fantastic. This aint a bad way to power them, I must say. Listening to Bob Mould and Christian McBride's new albums and I gotta say it is good shit. Sitting on my porch in Mayberry with a beer by my side doesn't hurt, either, of course.

[boomana]

Bob Mould and Christian McBride? New album? How did I miss this? Must investigate.

[Voltron]

Bob Mould and Christian McBride? New album? How did I miss this? Must investigate.

Two separate albums. Sorry. Both are great, though, and the McBride is one of the best new jazz albums in years. See what are you listening to for the album arts.

[Currawong]

Those waterfalls are a bit of an eye-opener to me. Is it foolish to conjecture that that pronounced ringing at 6kHz is probably what is pissing people (like, say, me) off with plosives and sibilance on the 800s?

This is my conclusion, as my graph from Sennheiser has the 6k or so peak higher than the graphs of others, and that mates with my EQ experiments.

[boomana]

Two separate albums. Sorry. Both are great, though, and the McBride is one of the best new jazz albums in years. See what are you listening to for the album arts.

And here I was thinking what a freaking brilliant, wacked-out, mish-mashed, trippy pairing, and for that reason alone, a must-have cd. Sad to say, I'm crushed that some producer didn't lock those two in a room and say, "See what you can come up with, boys. I'll let you out of here in two months." Still, I will investigate.

[Hopstretch]

I guess I am curious about all these graphs and things, but I am listening to mine right now and they are really kicking ass.

Maybe this should be in the "I swore I'd never..." thread, but yeah I never thought I'd be that annoying guy who has the awesome headphones he loves better than cake (or coke, depending on your predilection) -- except for that one teeny little sonic nit that he feels obliged to pick over and over again on the boards until everyone just wishes he would SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

[Beefy]

If it weren't for annoying people complaining about shit, then shit would never get fixed.

Of course, there are levels. So just remember to take the hint when it comes your way

[Hopstretch]

If I could take a hint, they would have run me off after about three posts around here!

I do like the 800s very much, though, and am genuinely interested in better understanding their fundamental characteristics.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Hopstretch

[Headphone Dreamer LD]

I am appreciating everyones feedback on the HD800's, and realise that as they gradually run in with more use some of your experienced views are changing.

Thanks for all the info guy's as I shall be getting mine soon ''end of the month to be exact''

Thanks again to all

Sincere Regards

[feckn_eejit]

Back to the 800s. I am really digging them off the HP4 right now.*snip*

Always been really curious to try a HP4 with my RS1s...

[Headphone Dreamer LD]

The EAR HP4 is a quality looking piece of equipment that I would dearly love to own some day.

The price for such kicks is very high thou, so who knows.

I shall have to listen to this in time.

[The Monkey]

I am appreciating everyones feedback on the HD800's, and realise that as they gradually run in with more use some of your experienced views are changing.

I disagree with the premise if you are referring to burn in. It is just as likely that ears are growing more accustomed to the phones.

[Dusty Chalk]

And here I was thinking what a freaking brilliant, wacked-out, mish-mashed, trippy pairing, and for that reason alone, a must-have cd. Sad to say, I'm crushed that some producer didn't lock those two in a room and say, "See what you can come up with, boys. I'll let you out of here in two months." Still, I will investigate.

I have a friend who had the same problem when he heard that Kronos Quartet and Tom Waits played together (they did, but "...at the same festival", not actually at the same time).

And I don't think you want to lock anyone alone in a room with Bob Mould.

[Headphone Dreamer LD]

I disagree with the premise if you are referring to burn in. It is just as likely that ears are growing more accustomed to the phones.

Thanks or possibly a little of both.......

[Voltron]

Maybe this should be in the "I swore I'd never..." thread, but yeah I never thought I'd be that annoying guy who has the awesome headphones he loves better than cake (or coke, depending on your predilection) -- except for that one teeny little sonic nit that he feels obliged to pick over and over again on the boards until everyone just wishes he would SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY.

So shut the fuck up already!

[hirsch]

In its stock form the ES-1 simply lacks the power it should have so the bass is too loose, the midrange too recessed and the top end rolled off.

The incorrect assumption that you've been making is that there is such a thing as a "stock form".

[hirsch]

There's a certain coloration that isn't there with the dead neutral GS-1 and it has a slightly smoothing effect, which I like.

There is a coloration in the HP4 that I believe is from the transformers. I was never able to get rid of it by tube rolling. It's pleasant when you listen to it, but always there. When I went OTL, the absence of the coloration was refreshing to the point that my HP4 went almost unused except for meets, until I finally sold it.