HD800? Another rumor?

[Sherwood]

Is there a high-end discontinued headphone that you don't have?

What would be the point in that?

[spritzer]

Is there a high-end discontinued headphone that you don't have?

Stax Sigma's? They were the TOTL models from 1977 and until 1993.

[HeadphoneAddict]

just checked my mailbox and it seems I also received a frequency graph for the squeaky pair I had, note the scale is different on my graph.....

kelvinz, my curve looks closer to yours than to it does to Hopstretch's, where I commented that I think his is pretty flat.

Here is mine, which is still +/- 2dB each direction:

[nnotis]

Hello elephas,

I had the K1000 and they were my favorite headphoes,i am considering a pair of HD800What amazed me the most about them is the seperation of instruments and overall clarity,do you think the the HD800 are on the same level of the K1000?

Thanks.

I found the HD800s to compare quite well with the K1000s in this regard. I'd have to do a lot more listening to determine which one has the edge in resolution and clarity above 50 Hz. Below that frequency, the K1000s really roll off, making the HD800s the clear winner in sub bass presentation.

But as K1000 hardliners would be quick to point out, the Beta 22 I use to drive my K1000s is not considered their ideal amp.

[Elephas]

Baby Elephant, where did you get those bags for your various (beautiful) headphones?

They came with some cables and I thought they were useful for putting headphones in so I got some extra.

You didn't refer to me by my full correct title which is "Super Cool Baby Elephant" but I'll forgive you this one time, since I'm so super cool. YGPM.

Is there a high-end discontinued headphone that you don't have?

I don't have an Ultrasone Edition 7 or 9. I've never heard them but I'm not very interested in Ultrasone headphones.

--

For anyone who hasn't heard some of the discontinued headphones and might be wondering if its worth the effort to try them, I say forget about them and just go for the HD800. I think it's a relative bargain, despite the high retail price. Please make sure you've got a good source, it's quite sensitive and transparent to upstream components.

[Elephas]

The two dynamics that I prefer over the HD800 at this point are the two Sonys, R10 and Qualia 010. These two were my two favorite dynamics, and it seems that they still are.

I spent some time comparing the HD800 with the Qualia today. The Qualia's details, speed, clarity, separation and imaging are superb. I think that it ranks in the top tier of headphones I've heard in those categories. I would have a difficult time ranking the Qualia, HD800 and K1000 in these areas, and that's without bringing in any electrostatics. Let's just say that I have no complaints in these areas.

The Qualia's soundstage is immense, larger than the HD800's. I've read about some people reporting a cavernous type sound and I can understand why. I think I'm getting a good fit, though, and after some time for acclimatization, it sounds natural to me. However, I think the HD800 beats the Qualia in layering and depth. The HD800's headstage is very comfortable, with everything nicely spaced out.

The Qualia's bass is also a bit stronger than the HD800's. The Qualia's bass quantity seems about right to me, not too much and not too little. Amplification and other factors probably play a role, of course. If the HD800 has any weakness, I think bass would be a good candidate.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Elephas

[luvdunhill]

Here is mine, which is still +/- 2dB each direction:

Well, 2.5dB +/- 2dB

[Hopstretch]

One more for the grist mill.

PLAYBACK 22: Sennheiser HD 800 Headphones | AVguide

He thought they weren't aggressive and were sucked out in the upper mids. Definitely hears them differently from most.

[The Monkey]

I think the post by "Art" after the review is a pretty good critique of Martin's piece:

Art (not verified) -- Thu, 07/09/2009 - 12:15

I don't mean to be harsh, but this is what I'd call a useless review. Many of Tom Martin's statements are contradictory (e.g. reagrding bass response). He harps on the fact that headphones cannot replace speakers, which has nothing to do with reviewing this product. (Yes Tom, I prefer speakers too. How are these as headphones?)

Tom says the HD 800s lack "vividness" - a value that is never described in any way, except to say that some people would call it distortion. With no better definition, my guess is that he's referring to an over-emphasis of high frequencies (common in headphones) leading to an impression of increased detail. That can be helpful in mixing or mastering, but it is an anathema to good listening. Tom seems to want this - what I call 'sizzle' - to compensate for headphones not being speakers. ?

"So, the HD 800s have a neutral frequency balance". They "seem more natural and less analytical than soke top 'phones". They have "a smooth, neutral sound that is clear but not aggressive." And somehow all of this is bad? Clearly, Tom prefers some other phones in this price-range. Why aren't any mentioned? How about some basis for comparison? Are Staxx 'phones more vivid? Does Grado have better bass?

I can't completely contain my sarcasm about how Tom 'warmed up' to the HD 800s "after a few weeks". Were they broken in before evaluation, or staright out of the box? Do speakers sound 'right' without significant break-in? Why would headphones? I suggest that Tom was simply hearing mechanical break in, which usually results in richer bass and a more neutral presenmtation overall. What I find hard to believe is that an experienced reviewr - or even listener - would not take that into account.

And after al is said and done, we still don't know what Tom really thinks. He has "high praise indeed" for these 'phones... but doesn't seem to like them!

I didn't have as negative a reaction, but I'd be interested in how Tom Martin feels about the 800 after a year with them.

[blessingx]

My biggest problem with the review is he seems to begrudgingly use phones and that taints the entire "compromised" experience. Kinda felt like someone reviewing a CDP, when he only endorses computer based media servers. And doesn't let it go with a simple single line up front.

[padam]

Here's a group shot of Team Top Ten Favorites.

Those stats seem to be hungry, you'll need to feed them with BHSE soon

[Hopstretch]

Preliminary conclusion: HD800 enjoy considerable synergy with HP4.

[Voltron]

Preliminary conclusion: HD800 enjoy considerable synergy with HP4.

I bet! That would be nice to hear sometime. Call me after you get that green shit off all of the surfaces in your home and maybe I can stop by.

[Hopstretch]

I bet! That would be nice to hear sometime. Call me after you get that green shit off all of the surfaces in your home and maybe I can stop by.

Anytime!

Wife got home from her business trip and is wrangling kids, so relaxing a bit here. Little Craig and Tim have been playing very nicely together. And I just cracked a new bottle of that orange stuff.

[Voltron]

Hey, how is the HD300 with the HD800? Did I miss that discussion?

[aardvark baguette]

man, am I out of the loop; I've never even heard of the HD300.

[n_maher]

man, am I out of the loop; I've never even heard of the HD300.

That's cause there are only 15 of them and they haven't been made for years.

[aardvark baguette]

oh

[Hopstretch]

Hey, how is the HD300 with the HD800? Did I miss that discussion?

Also very nice?

Bit of an embarrassment of riches right now thanks to the good offices of New Hampshire's own ever-generous Dark Knight, who also threw in some really good toobs for it.

It takes the edge off the HD800s a little bit, but the GS-1 still has it beat for top-to-bottom competence to my ear. The HP4 seems to be in a different class to both, again purely in my own limited experience thus far.

[The Monkey]

That's a little shelf of awesome right there.

[Sherwood]

^^

Amen. as fine a shelf as any man can lay claim to. Your mother must be very proud.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Haha I love that you have your CanJam badge on the shelf. All of our hard work making them lives on

[Sherwood]

Oh man, yummm.... I love pyramid apricot. Is there a badge trade-in program?

[Elephas]

There should be a rule, those who post photos that include beverages should offer to send some to the next five to ten people who post!

Gah, that EAR amp is huge. For some reason I imagined it as small, around the size of a Corda Prehead.

Those stats seem to be hungry, you'll need to feed them with BHSE soon

They've been doing fine with the ES-1 and Aristaeus, but I'm very curious how the O2's will sound with a BHSE. I'm almost hoping the BHSE will be bad somehow, so I can sell the amp and put the funds toward an HD800 amp. That's probably just wishful thinking.

The Zana Deux seems to do OK with the HD800, but I'm a bit disappointed with it in comparison to my Lehmann BCL. I also brought it in to a local audio shop to compare with their Corda Symphony, Lehmann and Graham Slee Solo demo amps, using two pairs of HD800 and their sources, an MBL 1411? or was it 1141? CD player and Esoteric X-05. I dislike the term "being blown away," but I admit that I was hoping that the ZD would do just that to the Symphony and Solo (well, OK, if you delete the word "away" I do like the term).

I did think the ZD was smoother and more refined, but the SS amps held their own reasonably well. Other people liked the ZD a lot and their least favorite was the Lehmann. I just thought that given the ZD's large size and heat output that I have to put up with, it should've crushed those puny SS amps!!!

Sennheiser was doing an HD800 event there for some media people. That's why there was two HD800 there, one was a loaner from Senn and the other the shop's unit. I talked with a few Senn people for a while; actually, they talked and I asked questions as fast as I could think of them. No, they didn't reveal any really interesting info, such as a new electrostatic headphone.

They said that another color, probably black, is likely and acknowledged the HD800 silver text on the charts. Based on the pricing gap between the HD800 and HD650 there's room for an HD700. It seems that they're serious about the consumer audiophile market.

I didn't understand all of it, but they explained a bit about tradeoffs and compromises in headphone drivers, and how the mass of the driver and frequency response is related to SPL. It seems that there's a volume sweet spot of sorts for every driver where we hear it as closest to flat, and when the volume becomes higher and higher there's more and more distortion. The required movement of the mass of a dynamic driver is a disadvantage versus the lack of mass of an electrostatic. Apparently the technology behind the large size ring driver was complicated. If the driver is designed to perform its best at a loud volume, then it probably won't sound as good at ultra-low or low volume. I think this was why they said the HD800 is designed for moderate listening levels.

A Senn amp is being worked on, but costs might be an issue. We discussed a bit about China-based manufacturing, and when I asked about possible competitors they said that it's impossible to reverse engineer a driver. You can cut it up, look inside and make one that looks the same, but you won't be able to replicate it exactly with the exact design and specifications. I guess this makes headphone manufacturers a bit safer from competition. In the Asia region at least, Audio-Technica is a big competitor.

[Hopstretch]

That is some very interesting stuff. Thank you.

I am definitely one of the people who finds the HD800, for all its other virtues, somewhat on the harsh side, particularly in the presentation of vocals. One reason for that, I suspect, is that I like to listen louder than most and the 800s really don't seem to like being cranked up. I guess Senn's sweet spot and my own are a few dB apart.