HD800? Another rumor?

[Voltron]

If the best you have heard is the K701 then the HD800 will seem like you have achieved Nirvana. I can't stand all of the hype and bullshit that has swirled around these cans on HF in that insane thread and otherwise, and I am not sure why people pre-ordered them who have not owned cans at that level before and have no real idea how they sound. I pre-ordered because I have been waiting for the new Senns for years, and I also heard them and think they are fantastic. In my case, though, I also own many hi-end cans and can afford them.

I do understand the feeding frenzy and built up demand and all, but I am not a fan of people buying expensive items with a 50-50 chance of returning them. If Todd or Tyll has significant returns that become discounted B-stock then they are going to suffer. Why can't people wait for a meet or an audition at a shop if they are dubious about their purchase decision?

[pabbi1]

I am not at all dubious about the decision, and want Senn to take whatever time it takes to do this right. This, for the record, is my 7th Senn headphone purchase, dating back to some hd414 in 1974 (high school), which were amazing compared to my radio shack something or another from circa 1970.

What the angst is about is the lack of communication, or current perceived lack thereof, after all the hot puffing that we might see them in, ohhhh, February... nope late March... possibly April / May.

Just give us a freaking date. That Senn has pooched this release (from a marketing and communication perspective) has not helped, especially when this should be a real crowning moment. ESPECIALLY when we stepped up in January with guaranteed payment and see the shiny video of these roolling off the production line, what, a month ago?

Fortuitously, it has given me time to finish the amp to go with it. I strongly feel this will be a meh phone unless it has the source and amp to match.

[spritzer]

I'm going to be able to audition them locally (just bought an amp for the occasion... ) and the price is very fair so if I do like them, I'll buy 'em here. That said I don't have high expectations as I very much prefer to be gradually won over rather then a few OMG moments followed by growing resentment...

[laxx]

If the best you have heard is the K701 then the HD800 will seem like you have achieved Nirvana. I can't stand all of the hype and bullshit that has swirled around these cans on HF in that insane thread and otherwise, and I am not sure why people pre-ordered them who have not owned cans at that level before and have no real idea how they sound. I pre-ordered because I have been waiting for the new Senns for years, and I also heard them and think they are fantastic. In my case, though, I also own many hi-end cans and can afford them.

I do understand the feeding frenzy and built up demand and all, but I am not a fan of people buying expensive items with a 50-50 chance of returning them. If Todd or Tyll has significant returns that become discounted B-stock then they are going to suffer. Why can't people wait for a meet or an audition at a shop if they are dubious about their purchase decision?

I disagree. There's a return policy for a reason. If Todd or Tyll get hammered with returns, then they should change their return policy.

Some people don't have time to go to meets. Some simply don't want to go. I don't fault them for buying and trying if it's allowed. Now if they were buying, trying, then returning as if they never tried it, then I'd have a problem with it.

[Voltron]

Looking at that circle-jerk thread on HF, don't you think a lot of those people are thinking that the 30-day return policy is a free listen option?

[Crevin]

I disagree. There's a return policy for a reason. If Todd or Tyll get hammered with returns, then they should change their return policy.

Some people don't have time to go to meets. Some simply don't want to go. I don't fault them for buying and trying if it's allowed. Now if they were buying, trying, then returning as if they never tried it, then I'd have a problem with it.

X2... If they (Tyll, Todd) have an issue with returns then the policy needs to be adjusted (i.e. restocking fee, lead pipe to the knee caps, etc...). I don't have time to go to 'meets' and such, with that being said if I don't like what I'm hearing within that 30 day window back they go, or onto the FS thread.

I would like Senn to make sure they get this right out the door also, but it is kinda of f'ed up that they go through 7+ years of R&D, numerous trade shows blowing their horns and now we have this 'mysterious' delay, with a perceived LACK of communication... that's just plain bullshit! And I don't find it acceptable with a bigtime operator such as Senn. With that said, hell yea I'm still in queue for these cans!

[pabbi1]

Looking at that circle-jerk thread on HF, don't you think a lot of those people are thinking that the 30-day return policy is a free listen option?

Tyll stated as much in one of the first threads on release - being scared of a lot of B stock.

I contend that "cj" is a direct result of Sennheisers 'Seagull Marketing" - fly into CES, take a big dump, and flying off. A monthly status update would really help, but, being engineers, the idea just escapes them.

[grawk]

Basically, you're arguing that the very reasonable return policy should be removed because they know some people are selfish assholes. I think asking people not to be selfish assholes is a reasonable thing to attempt to do.

[guzziguy]

I think asking people not to be selfish assholes is a reasonable thing to attempt to do.

Me too, though it's usually a waste of time.

[grawk]

I agree, that's what's killing meets and headfi in general...

But anyway, it's one thing to acknowledge that it's futile to ask and another to revel in being a selfish ass like it's a right.

[recstar24]

I agree, that's what's killing meets and headfi in general...

But anyway, it's one thing to acknowledge that it's futile to ask and another to revel in being a selfish ass like it's a right.

I concur and I concur...though so far I will say some of the young guys in that have been showing up at the chicago meets seem to actually have manners and understand what meets and this whole hobby is all about...makes me curious and excited that the chicago scene may be still alive...gotta love the midwest.

[pabbi1]

And the Dallas meets - I have yet to meet a selfish a-hat, and, in fact, rather surprised we haven't seen any - well, other than the ones that back out at the last minute...

Just teasing, guys. It never ever occurs to me to return something, well, with ONE glaring exception...

[grawk]

It's ok to return things. It's selfish as fuck to order $1400 headphones with the intention of returning them.

[Smeggy]

Jebus, is that one of Peter whatsisfaces stat amps?

[laxx]

Jebus, is that one of Peter whatsisfaces stat amps?

Yes sir.

[morphsci]

I agree, that's what's killing meets and headfi in general...

But anyway, it's one thing to acknowledge that it's futile to ask and another to revel in being a selfish ass like it's a right.

I concur and I concur...though so far I will say some of the young guys in that have been showing up at the chicago meets seem to actually have manners and understand what meets and this whole hobby is all about...makes me curious and excited that the chicago scene may be still alive...gotta love the midwest.

I was very happy with the meet we had in Champaign. It was about 50:50 newbies to old-fucks. Everyone was very courteous, and the discussions were actually interesting and did not revolve around the best $50 DAC that kills everything else in the universe.

[pabbi1]

Yes, the greatest evah... like I say, I never return anything, and am sure the hd800 are a long time resident at mi casa. In the end, I seriously doubt there are many returns, except...

There is a VERY unrealistic expectation that these will sound great at the end of some very undeserving chains, like Sony DVP -> Creek obh11 -> hd800 - guessing there will be serious bang-for-buck angst in that case, thus where the concern is. What is heard about the hd650 (scales good, but ya gotta throw a lot at it to make that happen) will be true. Sadly, I think a good portion of the population fits that mode, where the phone will magically make everything better.

And, the criticism may be valid - great phones, but will need additional investment. Too bad half the group buying ain't quite ready for that. This is a >$3000 expenditure, not "just" $1400.

[Knuckledragger]

I love the wandering drill marks on the case.

[Crevin]

It's ok to return things. It's selfish as fuck to order $1400 headphones with the intention of returning them.

People do it all the time. The only way around that is more stringent policies, unfortuantely.

[Hopstretch]

The only way around that is more stringent policies, unfortuantely.

There is another way. But it involves shovels and doesn't really scale effectively, I grant you.

[Asr]

I do understand the feeding frenzy and built up demand and all, but I am not a fan of people buying expensive items with a 50-50 chance of returning them. If Todd or Tyll has significant returns that become discounted B-stock then they are going to suffer. Why can't people wait for a meet or an audition at a shop if they are dubious about their purchase decision?

I can't tell if you were including me in your response, but I want to add that I'm not personally a fan of taking advantage of a return policy either - but if one exists and I can use it, then I might as well, at least if I have a reason to. To date I've bought a total of 3 items from HeadRoom and 5 items from TTVJ, and out of those I returned 1 (to TTVJ). I really hope to like the HD800 and the initial reports have been promising, but if I don't like it and can return it, then I may very well return it. I could theoretically wait for a meet instead but meet noise always detracts from the listening experience and it wouldn't be on my own gear either.

I also wouldn't say I'm dubious about my purchase decision, moreso the actual sound quality of the HD800 and if it will meet my expectations and hopes.

[Voltron]

I can't tell if you were including me in your response, but I want to add that I'm not personally a fan of taking advantage of a return policy either - but if one exists and I can use it, then I might as well, at least if I have a reason to. To date I've bought a total of 3 items from HeadRoom and 5 items from TTVJ, and out of those I returned 1 (to TTVJ). I really hope to like the HD800 and the initial reports have been promising, but if I don't like it and can return it, then I may very well return it. I could theoretically wait for a meet instead but meet noise always detracts from the listening experience and it wouldn't be on my own gear either.

I also wouldn't say I'm dubious about my purchase decision, moreso the actual sound quality of the HD800 and if it will meet my expectations and hopes.

My comment wasn't directed at any one person, but since you stopped posting on HF before Jude's HD800 thread started then it had nothing to do with you.

Reks, your description above is exactly how a free return policy is supposed to work and I have no problem at all when it is offered and utilized in that fashion.

[MoonShine]

I don't return stuff that often but I do take into consideration a store's return policy when deciding where to shop.

If I get hassled or refused trying to return something I will not shop there again.

[guzziguy]

To reward myself for getting a job after being "semi-retired" for more than a year, I just pre-ordered a pair from Headroom. Tyll gave me a coffee cup at the Orange County Audiophile meet and I owe him.

Actually, I'm hoping that they don't ship before CanJam. Then I'll be able to listen to them and cancel the order if I'm not impressed enough. If I do get them and decide not to keep them, I'll dispose of them through here or HF rather than send them back to Headroom, unless there is an actual problem with the pair I received.

[tyrion]

I have a pair on order and I am in no rush, in fact, a month or so after 4/15 would be perfect. Like guzzi said, if they are at CJ and I don't like them, then I can cancel my order. I don't mind taking advantage of a return policy at big stores, like Best Buy but I would prefer not to do that to Todd or Tyll.