HD800? Another rumor?

[spritzer]

Sure it counts as one. One active and two redundant (or spare parts, if you prefer). Very prescient

Brilliant.

Stax Mafia people here browsing dynamic threads, it's kind of suspicious.

Be afraid... be very afraid!!!

[aerius]

So even the mighty bass-heavy R10s have weaknesses?

Play some Fear Factory or Slayer and crank the volume to 11. R10s really hate it when you do that.

[atothex]

Play some Fear Factory or Slayer and crank the volume to 11. R10s really hate it when you do that.

Hard rock is >80% of my listening time.

[Iron_Dreamer]

This is something which I've noticed with loudspeakers & headphones, one which does everything well won't really have an area where it's great and stands apart from the rest. Conversely, a headphone or speaker which is great in one or two areas generally isn't going to be an even all-round performer. I don't really see this problem with sources & amps, well, at least once you spend enough money on them, but with transducers there's always a trade-off to make, at least to my ears.

Well, I'd tend to think that it is because the most all-around capable transducers tend to be the most even sounding, hence free of colorations. As I think most of us know, certain colorations can enhance the listening experience with certain music, even if it just effectively EQ'ing. Hence the reason that many of the very best headphones are not all-arounders, they have colorations which put them at an advantage with some music, and a disadvantage with others.

And once you reach a certain (high) level of objective performance (detail, etc.) it all really just comes down to personal preference, and the colorations (or lack thereof) all have their own places.

[Elephas]

So even the mighty bass-heavy R10s have weaknesses?

Yes, its bass impact. But it seems that everything else are its strengths: midrange, treble, details, imaging, soundstage, refinement, etc. I don't think anything I've heard beats the R10 in pure midrange magic.

I thought the bass-lite unit I used to have has even better midrange than the bass-heavier unit I kept. Acoustic singer-songwriter type female vocals was fantastic with that headphone. But its bass just didn't have any impact. Keep in mind that the bass-heavier R10 people talk about doesn't have a lot of bass impact either, just more than the bass-lite R10.

I would guess that most bass-lite R10s are older units with lower serial numbers and the bass-heavier units have higher serial numbers. I suspect that crumbling foam inside the R10 housings have something to do with it, besides potential production changes, of course.

I think the HD800 is very neutral-sounding while the R10 has some coloration. But it is nice coloration, in a very good way that adds to the enjoyment of music. I don't mind a little deception if it enhances the experience.

[Smeggy]

I think the 800 is ultimately too neutral sounding for me, I like my coloration and the 800 sounded nondescript and not very interesting or engaging to me. However, they are very memorable in the comfort department. I'd love a set as foster phones to transplant some orthos into

hehe

[kelvinz]

I think the 800 is ultimately too neutral sounding for me, I like my coloration and the 800 sounded nondescript and not very interesting or engaging to me. However, they are very memorable in the comfort department. I'd love a set as foster phones to transplant some orthos into

hehe

:asshat:

[Smeggy]

[Nebby]

That was a good one smeg!

[Currawong]

I think the 800 is ultimately too neutral sounding for me, I like my coloration and the 800 sounded nondescript and not very interesting or engaging to me. However, they are very memorable in the comfort department. I'd love a set as foster phones to transplant some orthos into

hehe

I'm thinking of keeping this 007t Craig lent me for my LNS and SR-5NB for similar reasons. The touch of tube makes jazz utterly engaging with the latter, and I prefer trying to blow my head off with the former, as the HD-800's are fatiguing for me at loud volumes.

A listening run with the O2/717 sounds a bit more congested than the HD800/Phoenix, which was a shock. I accept if that's due to the O2's being under-driven and somewhat due to tonal differences.

[screaming oranges]

Best I have heard the HD800 from different combinations in my gear is:

Aero DAC -> balanced cables -> Luxman P1 -> HD800.

I find no fatigue at all with this combo. Not the least bit. The soundstage is incredible. While I have gotten a good sense of soundstage before with other headphones/gear, with this combo, me, the noob ears, immediately thought "so this is soundstage!". Immense. Almost surround-sound like. However, I still haven't tube-rolled on the M24 DAC, and I forgot to test the BelCanto feeding balanced into the Luxman. But I will do that next week when I get more balanced cables.

Take what I said with a grain of salt, as you should factor in some new Aero DAC love in there, which might bias my opinion a bit.

[Smeggy]

I didn't find the 800 in the least bit offensive. They are fast, clear, detailed and very good overall. They don't seem colored and do indeed appear very neutral. Everything a purist might want. I've been fine tuning my tastes over the years to the extent of modding things to sound how I want and that is now what I like to hear. Unabashed personal coloration junkie.

I have a specific sound sig I like and as well as the 800 performs, If they were mine I'd be in them modding to suit my tastes.

[purk]

Yes, its bass impact. But it seems that everything else are its strengths: midrange, treble, details, imaging, soundstage, refinement, etc. I don't think anything I've heard beats the R10 in pure midrange magic.

I thought the bass-lite unit I used to have has even better midrange than the bass-heavier unit I kept. Acoustic singer-songwriter type female vocals was fantastic with that headphone. But its bass just didn't have any impact. Keep in mind that the bass-heavier R10 people talk about doesn't have a lot of bass impact either, just more than the bass-lite R10.

I would guess that most bass-lite R10s are older units with lower serial numbers and the bass-heavier units have higher serial numbers. I suspect that crumbling foam inside the R10 housings have something to do with it, besides potential production changes, of course.

I think the HD800 is very neutral-sounding while the R10 has some coloration. But it is nice coloration, in a very good way that adds to the enjoyment of music. I don't mind a little deception if it enhances the experience.

I heard the HD800s recently and have to admit that it is an excellent sounding headphonoe and deserve all the praise. However, I do feel that the R10 do sound sweeter and has more organic & fluid presentation. OTOH, the HD800 might present a little bit more air, details and seperation of instrument albeit a bit dry in presentation, but at the end of the day I just prefer the R10. I'm hoping that I will get a chance to compare the two in a better and more quite environment to have better conclusion.

[Elephas]

the R10 do sound sweeter and has more organic & fluid presentation

Yep, yep, that's what I meant by the R10's nice coloration.

HE90 Strikes Back

Well, I moved the Aristaeus to the Esoteric system and did the same comparison with the Patricia Barber SACD as before. This time the HE90+Aristaeus beat the HD800+Lehmann BCL. The result wasn't unexpected, because this is why the HE90 is my favorite headphone even though it, like any other headphone, isn't 'the best' I've heard in most categories.

Team HE90 v2 proved merciless and switched tubes in the Aristaeus to a pair of Sylvania 5751 and then to a pair of Mullard ECC83. These two types of tubes made the sound shift towards crispness and very well-defined notes separation in the case of the 5751, and towards liquidity, smoothness and refinement in the case of the Mullards. I remembered why I like tubes.

Sennheiser used the Lehmann Black Cube Linear to demo the HD800 at some of their events. In Germany there was an Orpheus system for comparison. I've never heard the HEV90, but if they were confident about how well the HD800 would compare, I don't think I'm missing a lot by using an Aristaeus instead of an HEV90.

[Elephas]

I forgot to mention that the HD800 had a larger soundstage and better notes separation than the HE90. It has a very clean and clear presentation that can even make the HE90 seem just slightly out of focus.

I thought the HE90 was more warmer, smoother, more liquid and more refined. The Sylvania 5751 closes the gap with the HD800 in terms of clarity and separation, but sacrifices some warmth and smoothness compared to the Mullard or TF ECC83. The liquidity and refinement makes it immensely enjoyable and involving.

It's the same story of win some lose some. The HE90 is not better than the HD800 in every area and vice versa, just like other headphones at this level. Given the market prices, I think the HD800 is a relative bargain and a good value, even. With a good system behind it, it ranks among the discontinued headphone greats.

[pabbi1]

I just find it pretty compelling that the hd800 causes conversation and hard looks when compared to the he90, r-10, etc. What more could have possibly been expected?

[riceboy]

Thanks Purk and Elephas for your comparisons of the HD800 and the R10s. I will eventually purchase a HD800, but for the time being the cans I have are keeping me happy and when the HF-2s come in that'll keep me busy .

[purk]

Thanks Purk and Elephas for your comparisons of the HD800 and the R10s. I will eventually purchase a HD800, but for the time being the cans I have are keeping me happy and when the HF-2s come in that'll keep me busy .

I'm in the same boat as well. Though the HD800 is really really nice headpones but I'm so happy with what I have so I won't get the HD800 any time soon unless the price starts to come down and I have more time to listen to music again. Like others, I might have the pull the trigger on the HF2 before it will run out.

[Elephas]

I'm really enjoying the HD800's soundstage/headstage. It has less of the 'inside-the-head' feeling of most headphones, and more of a 'sound coming from the front and sides' sensation. Yes, other headphones have large soundstages and some like the K1000 or Sony PFR-V1 are unique in their own ways. For some reason I'm finding the HD800's to be extremely comfortable and pleasant.

Depth and width of the soundstage are excellent. Along with the precise imaging, and fast attack and decay, each note's position and 'distance' in relation to others is extra clear. The resulting soundstage illusion is very nice.

It's a stark contrast to the O2, which has a small and focused headstage and 'tiny' sound images, or Grados, with their very forward presentation and small soundstages.

[Fungi]

What do you think of K701 soundstage?

[Elephas]

The K701's soundstage is quite large and wide. It is one of the things I like about it. I don't think it is as coherent as the HD800's, though, meaning that the the distances between instruments aren't as well-spaced. This is kind of difficult to describe because all the sound is appearing inside and 'around' your head. I just don't think the K701's illusion of a soundstage is as convincing.

Here's a group shot of Team Top Ten Favorites. It wasn't easy getting everyone together, and one member (Jade) is actually missing, current whereabouts unclear. The Team has somewhat hastily found a substitute, the HP-2, though not everyone is convinced that it is a full-fledged member. Yes, the Team is aware that there are more than ten members. No, they don't intend to change their name.

The Team says they're ready to take on Beyers whether modded or not, Denons, whether modded or not, JVC and Ultrasone.

[Quadrangulum]

[Deadneddz]

Team minimal would never accept you!

Although quality to quantity ratio is 1:1

[pearljam5000]

Hello elephas,

I had the K1000 and they were my favorite headphoes,i am considering a pair of HD800What amazed me the most about them is the seperation of instruments and overall clarity,do you think the the HD800 are on the same level of the K1000?

Thanks.

[Hopstretch]

Well, the Senn frequency graphs are apparently coming in and ... they did it theeeeeir waaaay.