Preamp Choices for an McCormack DNA 1

[jp11801]

Ok so I have finally scored the DNA 1 rev A of Audiogon and partnered with my Alon 1s it sounds great. I have been using the pre outs from the Berendsen IPA-80 as well as an Luminous Audio passive volume control partnered with a Moth Audio switchbox.

I am starting to set my sites on a preamp and have a few candidates:

Bent Audio TAP (a bit out of range atm but still obtainable)

Placette Audio passive preamp from what I have read may be tops in the transparency dept in this price range

McCormacj Audio RLD preamp, these show up used for $700ish on Agon and Steve McCormack offers upgrades to them. There are three levels of upgrades 700/1100/1400, I'd probably go gusto and get the $1400 upgrade in March of 09.

I had though of going tube based active like the CAT sl1, ARC sp10 or Quicksilver but from what I have read if matched correctly in my price range a passive may be the way to go.

Anyone here try either the Bent audio or placette units?

Both my phono pre and Dac offer enough output to drive the passive as they are doing a fine job with the Luminous Axiom at the moment.

[luvdunhill]

Bent Audio TAP (a bit out of range atm but still obtainable)

what about getting a builder to assemble some of the Bent Audio TAP components for you? Might be able to save a bit of cash this way...

[jp11801]

what about getting a builder to assemble some of the Bent Audio TAP components for you? Might be able to save a bit of cash this way...

I hadn't thought about that after speaking to the Mike C at VSAC there did not seem to be that much profit in these units??

[jp11801]

the Quicksilver remote preamp is pretty damn good for the money.

the one I was leering at was the early pre with the phono stage, although I love my Mod Squad phono drive.

[luvdunhill]

I hadn't thought about that after speaking to the Mike C at VSAC there did not seem to be that much profit in these units??

dunno about profit, but you can get exactly what features you need and you can pick and choose where to spend your money... whether on a display, or simple knob, or autoformer-based control versus resistive and balanced versus unbalanced, multiple input boards, etc... of course you can cut cost on the enclosure, for example.

[Torpedo]

JP#s, if you want to know if your system is "passive preamp capable" I'd advise you to get a used Placette remote, which is frequently available at Agon, and also easy to resell either in case it won't work, or that you decided you need the 3 inputs unit.

The other option, but you'd probably need to get them new, since they're quite scarce on the second hand market, are the EVS attenuators Not extremely handy, but an affordable and useful tool to know about your system capabilities, and sometimes to "tame" high output sources when you need lower volumes than your preamp allows.

[jp11801]

JP#s, if you want to know if your system is "passive preamp capable" I'd advise you to get a used Placette remote, which is frequently available at Agon, and also easy to resell either in case it won't work, or that you decided you need the 3 inputs unit.

well I have the Moth selector box that I could pair up with the Placette remote volume control and if I bought new it has a 30 day return policy

[jp11801]

checked out the EVS page and after reading up a bit the best preamp in my system is no preamp. If I pump the transdac or apogee duet right into the McCormack and use itunes digital volume it sounds better than Axiom passive. Unfortunately this set up will lead to me frying my speakers when I forget to turn the itunes volume down.

[Dusty Chalk]

It depends -- what characteristics of those preamps draw you to them?

[luvdunhill]

checked out the EVS page and after reading up a bit the best preamp in my system is no preamp. If I pump the transdac or apogee duet right into the McCormack and use itunes digital volume it sounds better than Axiom passive. Unfortunately this set up will lead to me frying my speakers when I forget to turn the itunes volume down.

seems unbelievable really. Digital volume is the suck, no way around that.

[jp11801]

actually I've heard good things about apples itunes volume control this is a snippet from the Benchmark Audio page on Apples Itunes volumes control

iTunes 7.X seems to be a very good attempt at overcoming the limitations of CoreAudio. iTunes 7.X provides a high-quality 24-bit dithered volume control (the iTunes 6.X volume control was 16-bit with truncation problems). iTunes 7.X establishes a 24-bit connection with CoreAudio while iTunes 6.X was limited to 16-bit connections. iTunes 7.X attempts to avoid operating system based SRC services by providing its own very high quality SRC.

Our measurements show that the iTunes 7.X SRC is so good that it should be inaudible (unless it is down sampling). An easy, all-inclusive setup is to set AudioMIDI to 96kHz before launching iTunes and keep AudioMIDI at 96kHz. This will lock iTunes at 96 kHz, which will upsample all sample-rates lower then 96 kHz. Setting the default to 96 kHz would allow playback of high-resolution 96 kHz 24-bit files without any processing, and would utilize the high-quality iTunes 7.X SRC only when playing low resolution 44.1 and 48 kHz files, or the rare 88.2 kHz file.

[jp11801]

It depends -- what characteristics of those preamps draw you to them?

not sure if any of these will have what I am looking for but I am looking for transparency and dynamics most of all. Most pre amps in the range I am looking at have a tendency to place their hand print on the signal in a way that takes me further away from the immediacy and emotional content of the music.

[Grahame]

DAC direct to power Amp

This is a perennial topic on the slim devices forum. Many people are interested in driving their power amp / speakers / active speakers directly, without a preamp.

The issue is one of gain staging - so that the maximum output of the DAC yields the maximum desired volume from the speakers, with the best S/NR for the signal path.

This often entails some passive attenuation to the output of the DAC, to obtain the desired results.

Good starting points (in addition to the search function) are

This Wiki entry Connect To PowerAmp - SqueezeboxWiki

esp. the reference links at the end.

The latest thread on the matter Direct to power amp? - Squeezebox : Community : Forums

One poster drives his ATC's directly from a transporter (with inline attenuation), now there's a thought

[Jon L]

I am starting to set my sites on a preamp and have a few candidates:

Bent Audio TAP (a bit out of range atm but still obtainable)

Placette Audio passive preamp from what I have read may be tops in the transparency dept in this price range

McCormacj Audio RLD preamp,

I have owned/used Placette passive RVC, Bent NOH TVC, EVS ultimates, passives similar to Axiom, and I do like the Placette if taking into account unadulterated sound *AND* convenience of remote control (!).

In a couple of systems, the EVS ultimate attenuators did sound even less additive than Placette, likely due to one less run of interconnects/capacitance; but there is no remote control, and you have to reach back and manually turn the knobs.

If I were in your shoes, I would probably spend my money first on some sMc audio upgrades for DNA amp itself. While expensive, Steve's Platinum amp upgrades are really, really sweet.

http://www.smcaudio.com/

[jp11801]

If I were in your shoes, I would probably spend my money first on some sMc audio upgrades for DNA amp itself. While expensive, Steve's Platinum amp upgrades are really, really sweet.

http://www.smcaudio.com/

The DNA I purchased has the Rev A mods which is the TOTL plus the balanced upgrade. I am looking at getting the siltech wire upgrade when I drive down to SoCal for CanJam. I had thought about the RLD with the platinum upgrade but you never hear anyone talk about his preamp upgrades. I really wish he would upgrade the Mod Squad phono pre I have I love the thing but know he could do a nice bit in the PS and volume control.

Jon any idea how much you could hear the EVS or placette in the system?

[Torpedo]

jp, knowing how you're using your setup, and being as sure as you are that you can go preamp less, I'd take the EVS and place it on the amp. Then, with the computer's volume at maximum set a top level on the EVS which is safe for your speakers. From there, if you don't find any degradation by using iTunes volume, you can still be using it to set your ideal volume level, but you'd be safe not to burn them in the case you forgot to set a proper volume level on iTunes.

That's cheap, quite practical and probably one of the simplest signal paths apart from no preamp at all.

[jp11801]

any thoughts between the Endler and EVS units? I think I will go this route for now while my stacker headphone amp/pre is being built.

[Jon L]

any thoughts between the Endler and EVS units? I think I will go this route for now while my stacker headphone amp/pre is being built.

Oh, shoot. I am ashamed to admit that I've had both EVS ultimates and Ender units for a long time but have been too lazy to compare them at length. That's partly because they both do a "good enough" job when I use them in various positions, but my system is built around passive-friendly values.

The mid-level McCormack stock preamps I have listened to were good, but not so good that I would abandon my passives for.

However, Steve's new statement preamp, VRE-1 is one fantastic-sounding preamp that I would gladly give up others for. It's $7500 unfortunately, but it's as good as I've heard that combines the virtues of passives and actives in one design.

mccormack

[jp11801]

Well on paper the EVS should be worth the xtra $150

[Dusty Chalk]

Conrad Johnson have a relationship with McCormack -- perhaps you should look at one of those? They come in a variety of price points, not just the ultra expensive ones are any good.

[jp11801]

the only pre McCormack/CJ makes that would be suitable is the RLD that SMC audio can upgrade