Esoteric D70

[cclragnarok]

Has anyone heard the Esoteric D70?

I'm thinking of buying one used for ~$1500. It seems like a nice deal to me, but I've heard that it is on the cold/analytical side. I'm a little worried that it might sound too cold/analytical/sterile with my Headamp KGSS and SR-007.

Also, it seems that Esoteric isn't very well-liked here. What is the reason for this?

Any information on this unit would be greatly appreciated.

[jp11801]

well you srta answered your own question, they are not loved here mainly because they are cold and analytical also they lack PRaT. You can get a fast player that can also vibe for instance the ayre cx7e.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Well the time I heard one, it did nothing to convince me it had capabilities outside of the ~$1k DAC1/Lavry/Apogee et al. realm. Of course it is giant, and nicely built, so the price you have isn't probably too out of whack. Seems to me that if you have to worry that the sound signature isn't your thing, it probably isn't. You know your taste (hopefully).

[cclragnarok]

Thanks for the information guys.

I think the KGSS + SR-007 is a little on the analytical side, and that's why I'm a little worried. However, I've also found that predicting synergy is a lot more complicated for me than just cold vs. warm.

Normally, I wouldn't think that this is worth a try given what you guys said. I'll be able to pick up the D70 locally though, so the risk is much lower.

[Filburt]

Looks like it's a PCM1704-based platform with some sort of FPGA or off-the-shelf DSP to do filtering. Could be a Blackfin in which case the HDCD decoding may be done by the PMD200 firmware + Teac's stuff instead of having two ICs (e.g. DSP + PMD100) plus would make taking those high sample rates a lot easier.

So, that at least is pretty solid. I imagine the power situation is OK too. So it's probably the output stage that is the problem. Knowing Esoteric they probably used something silly like NE5534s (or 5532s), or OPA604s for I/V and probably the follower for the active LPF. In essence, that's going to sound kind of sterile and crappy. If they used something like MKS or certain MKP caps for the LPF, particularly WIMA's (I haven't entirely figured out why this is yet but it was reproducible across a few circuits I tested), this may exacerbate the effect.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that it could plausibly be worth checking out, but you may end up having to invest in someone modifying it to some adequate amount for you. I imagine one of the DIY-for-hire guys could do it *shrug*.

[Icarium]

Yeah I dunno I haven't heard it but it has 4x PCM1704 so unless Esoteric is rocking a completely shit design then it has vastly more potential than your usual 1k dac (I.e. the ones that Iron Dreamer named). Of course you run the risk of it being a completely shit design and you'll have to find someone to mod it that actually knows what they are doing (Not particularly easy) that is willing to work on it/and or has experience with the player (Given it's age extra not easy).

Still the D70 does move generally so you can probably sell it though it might not be as straight forward as moving a Benchmark or a Lavry... of course the economy is shitty so who knows.

Based on my experience looking at the UX-1 I'm looking at great DAC chips... meh I/V but at least not passive I/v... and a shitty generic analog output stage but one that can be tweaked and a great power supply. So there is hope for my UX-1 and it helps that I like the stock sound (Though chances are you won't).

Can I guarantee that the same things are in the D70? Nope. I do hope my D-3 though is along those lines though...

I may get a D70 in the future though if it has a decent filter chip and an operable I/V stage and an operable analog output stage then there's a lot of potential there.

P.S. Yeah massive overlap with Filburt's post... man if it does use the PMD200 though I'll have to buy one for sure then I can realize my dream of a balanced DAC that uses PCM1704s + the PMD200. Last dac I need to add to my stable... for now.

[cclragnarok]

Wait a minute. Don't you guys all live in NorCal too?

The seller is actually neilvg. You people probably know him from the meets. He offered to let me go and try out the D70 at his place, so maybe that's what I'll end up doing. \

[Icarium]

Ha.. just the thought of it having the PMD200 made me think about buying it. And i remembered separately that Neilvg had one of those that he used in his studio so I emailed him last night after posting and asked if he would be interested in selling it.

Well if you don't buy it I probably will as Neil is a good friend and local.

[neilvg]

if you come by, maybe I'll hook up your headphone system to my NWO 3.0GO (its a modified esoteric), and you'll get to see how different (if at all perceptible to you) a real top flight system sounds in comparison to the D70

Neil

[cclragnarok]

Ha.. just the thought of it having the PMD200 made me think about buying it. And i remembered separately that Neilvg had one of those that he used in his studio so I emailed him last night after posting and asked if he would be interested in selling it.

Well if you don't buy it I probably will as Neil is a good friend and local.

I'm still not sure about buying the D70. If you really want it, you can take my spot in the queue.

if you come by, maybe I'll hook up your headphone system to my NWO 3.0GO (its a modified esoteric), and you'll get to see how different (if at all perceptible to you) a real top flight system sounds in comparison to the D70

Neil

I didn't know that you are also a Head-Case member.

I'm sure that that the NWO sounds great, but I don't think my budget will ever get that big.

[Icarium]

Ha well maybe we should just meet up at Neils sometime soon and figure this out?

I'm going up to Alex Peychev's this weekend so its no good for me.. picking up my Esoteric DV60 unmodded/untouched to resell to recoop my initial investment and Neil's HE60s.

[cclragnarok]

Ha well maybe we should just meet up at Neils sometime soon and figure this out?

I'm going up to Alex Peychev's this weekend so its no good for me.. picking up my Esoteric DV60 unmodded/untouched to resell to recoop my initial investment and Neil's HE60s.

I can only go to Neil's place this weekend or next Saturday.

[Icarium]

He says next Saturday works so lets do that. Shoot me a pm with your email and we'll coordinate.

[cclragnarok]

He says next Saturday works so lets do that. Shoot me a pm with your email and we'll coordinate.

YGPM

[Jon L]

if you come by, maybe I'll hook up your headphone system to my NWO 3.0GO (its a modified esoteric), and you'll get to see how different (if at all perceptible to you) a real top flight system sounds in comparison to the D70

Neil

It's interesting that Srajan is now seeming to be saying tubed CDP/DAC may not be the way to go in his NWO vs. Yamamoto DAC review.

Is D70 on a definite lower plane of performance compared to NWO, or could a solid-state lover reasonably even prefer it over the tubed player?

[neilvg]

First of all, sonically, the NWO doesn't have a tubey sound at all. The tubes are used to ward off the tendency towards an overly clinical sound.. you'd have to hear it... the D70 is nowhere near the NWO IMHO. I mean thr D70'd need some modification for sure, but beyond that the NWO is a transport/DAC combo with no external cabling required for the connection. Additionally there are a whole host of features in the NWO regardless of it being tubed. The original NWO didn't have tubes and was later added for the benefit of the end aesthetic sonic result. As you likely know, even the tubes used have changed over time via the revisions of this player.

So to answer your question - this player doesn't appeal to tube or SS lovers, but rather, I'd say it is not overly categorized by either.

Neil

[Hopstretch]

All things to all people. Awesome.

[spritzer]

I have an APL as well (so does tkam) and I can confirm that is doesn't sound like the quintessential tube output stage at all. The ECC99 used is a very linear tube and there are no nasty caps in the signal path.

[dimitris]

So how is it? I am very interested as I want to get one for my squeezebox.

[Icarium]

I like it a lot even stock. It is a massive player. Will be opening it up tomorrow I think.

[dimitris]

I finally ended up buying it from the Monkey. I really like it. Not sure how it fares with headphones but with my Sonus Faber speakers it rocks. Very solid base and extended soundstage. Detail is very good as well. I guess it is the right source to use with a laid back speaker system (Sonus Faber + Pathos amp).

[Icarium]

Aha so you were the one. I'm glad you finally got it.

[dimitris]

Yes somehow it managed to make its way to me. I was able to pick it up in person from NYC. Its definitely a very solid construction and it sounds great as well. Definitely an upgrade from my old source. It puts some extra weight on my squeezebox input even if it plays Pandora radio. Has anyone ever tried the AES/EBU import? According to the reviews it should sound far better than the coaxial and toslink inputs. I was thinking of upgrading to the transporter in order to use the AES/EBU connection. Any ideas?

[dimitris]

The reviews and the manual seem to mention otherwise. I don't know why but for the P70-D70 combo the recommended connection is 2 AES/EBU cables and a sync clock cable between transport and DAC.

SoundStage! Equipment Review - Esoteric P-70 Transport and D-70 Digital-to-Analog Converter (12/2003)

[dimitris]

Ok. It sounds excellent from the coaxial input already. Maybe I should upgrade my SB3 to the newer version. It definitely sounds a lot better fed from my Cary cd-player than from the SB3.