America...

[tyrion]

This is exactly what I was trying to describe before. Like Reks says, come to a college campus and see what its like.

<snip>

I've been on the University of Florida campus for about 6 weekends in the last 6 months and I found it refreshing that young people were so passionate about Obama and politics in general. I don't see the enthusiasm as a negative. My 19 year old daughter was as excited as I was when Obama won. I don't think, however, that she considered him a "mythological hero". Perhaps a hero but I would have to agree, as I stated earlier.

[tyrion]

Florida college students might just be a bit less glassy eyed than Ohio college students

I don't know I've seen a few red, glassy eyes at UF.

[humanflyz]

Those college kids might be naive, and they are most likely going to have their expectations dashed when they come to realize that Obama is just a politician (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way).

But I don't see why their current infatuation with him is dangerous in any meaningful way. Even if they were to be disabused of their unrealistic hopes and expectations, they are still much more engaged politically than their predecessors a generation or two ago.

I'm all for more engagement, and if Obama is what it takes to draw these people to participate, then so be it.

[Sherwood]

I don't actually care about engagement, really. All the motivation anyone should need is the freedom to participate.

[deepak]

I saw plenty of enthusiasm for both of Bill Clinton's campaigns from young people.

[aardvark baguette]

I just remember noticing he played saxophone, and so did I. It was kind of neat. That was about my involvement back then

[Sherwood]

I remember him not being terribly good. At saxophone, I mean

[aardvark baguette]

I was in elementary school, so I didnt know the difference.

[Sherwood]

If greater engagement and greater voter turnout led to a better-informed populace, I would be all for it. I certainly don't see the two as correlated, however, so participation is only a measure of enthusiasm. Enthusiasm isn't bad in and of itself, of course, but neither is it good.

[guzziguy]

Please elaborate on which of the 6 years you think were a success. I'm a financially conservative, socially liberal minded person for the most part so neither candidate really represented my way of thinking. But some of what McCain's platform ended up saying socially bothered me more than what Obama represents economically. And I'm sorry, McCain's choice of VP made it impossible for me to vote for him. Not so much because of who Palin is (the VP is worthless for the most part) but because it showed the type of person he was willing to choose to be a part of his administration.

And I too question how much real change can occur regardless of who's in office. I have hope for now and that's better than I've felt for a good number of years.

Nate, you and I are pretty much in complete agreement. I'm a centrist and watching the two main parties each get more extreme and divisive for the last 40 years has been terrible for me to watch. I'd really love to see a viable middle of the road party that is socially progressive and fiscally responsible. The last 8 years have been exactly the opposite of this. I'd also like to see the separation of church and state be reestablished and strengthened.

it was nice to see an election where the win was decisive, both in terms of the EC and the popular vote. i wouldn't mind seeing the EC abolished with a constitutional amendment. it made sense for much of the history of this country, but not anymore.

I agreed with this sentiment until the 2000 election. If the election then was based purely on the popular vote, instead of just fighting for votes in Florida, both parties would have scrabbled for more votes nationally. It might have taken years to determine the winner. Since then, I've been a firm believer in the Electoral College.

[aardvark baguette]

[humanflyz]

If greater engagement and greater voter turnout led to a better-informed populace, I would be all for it. I certainly don't see the two as correlated, however, so participation is only a measure of enthusiasm. Enthusiasm isn't bad in and of itself, of course, but neither is it good.

There is some correlation, albeit weak, between greater turnout and being more informed (as far as I know during my four years of being a political science major), so you have a point there.

But to me, this is a better alternative than what we've had before: dogmatic ideologues on both sides dominating the discourse/voting. These new voters might not be as well-informed, so they are probably more easily influenced; on the other hand, they probably won't carry as much ideological baggage. Sure there is a risk of demagoguery, but that's a risk inherent in democracy. I am willing to take that risk if it could possibly lead to the expansion of reasonable, intelligent political discourse/action from citizens.

[morphsci]

Nate, you and I are pretty much in complete agreement. I'm a centrist and watching the two main parties each get more extreme and divisive for the last 40 years has been terrible for me to watch. I'd really love to see a viable middle of the road party that is socially progressive and fiscally responsible. The last 8 years have been exactly the opposite of this. I'd also like to see the separation of church and state be reestablished and strengthened.

You can also add me to that list. I have pretty much given up on the possibility of a viable third party however. Nothing in this election changes my mind on that.

I agreed with this sentiment until the 2000 election. If the election then was based purely on the popular vote, instead of just fighting for votes in Florida, both parties would have scrabbled for more votes nationally. It might have taken years to determine the winner. Since then, I've been a firm believer in the Electoral College.

I too thought getting rid of the electoral college would be a good idea early on. However, that view gradually changed when I realized how most people decide on a candidate. It then was scary to think of no electoral college to act as a buffer. The 2000 election also solidified my opinion that getting rid of the EC would be a bad idea.

[Sherwood]

intelligent political discourse is difficult because it's one of the issues that brings out monkey-anger in us hairless savanna apes.

Curiously unlike intelligent sexual discourse, which brings out monkey shame.

[Knuckledragger]

[blessingx]

NYTimes mapping of voter change comparing 2004 to 2008 elections. Pretty well distributed. Interestingly, many hit worst by Katrina (or more accurately now living there) voted more Repub while a large chunk of Texas and Alaska went Dem.

[tkam]

FYI, Obama has offered the Chief of Staff position to Rahm Emanuel

[Sherwood]

FYI, Obama has offered the Chief of Staff position to Rahm Emanuel

Good on him for not taking the day off. Seems he's going to try and get the most out of his guaranteed 2 years of partisan green lights. Imagine what it would be like if the Democrats could block the filibuster, too.

[Icarium]

Huh I just wikipedia'd Rahm Emanuel and got:

"Bradley Whitford's character Josh Lyman on NBC television series The West Wing is said to be based on Emanuel.[1]"

Can only hope reality conforms more to the West Wing (TV) with all that sweet Aaron Sorkin dialogue.

[humanflyz]

wow, the gay marriage ban passed in California. that's some fucked up shit.

Yeah, I was very pissed off: I voted absentee just so that I can vote "no" on that prop. And here I thought Californians are among the more "tolerant" people in the country.

[n_maher]

wow, the gay marriage ban passed in California. that's some fucked up shit.

x2

[aardvark baguette]

how the hell did that happen in California?

[Sherwood]

That kinda comes out of left field (right field?)

[Voltron]

It passed the last time with over 60% so we somehow got closer to being enlightened. It passed this time because a bunch of fucking intolerant out of state assholes came here and spent gobs of millions of dollars on a mis-information campaign that scared a bunch of stupid people living outside the civilized parts of the state.

[Sherwood]

It passed this time because a bunch of fucking intolerant out of state assholes came here and spent gobs of millions of dollars on a mis-information campaign that scared a bunch of stupid people living outside the civilized parts of the state.

I heard almost the exact same thing said last night about why CO voted blue. Except omit the word "intolerant".