America...

[tyrion]

I voted for Bush in both of the preceeding elections. I felt like he'd be a better president than Al Gore and John Kerry. I still believe that. I'd make those votes again.

I definitely believe that John McCain would be a better leader for this country today than Barak Obama. I voted for McCain instead of Bob Barr for that reason.

Do I think George Bush was the best possible president we could have had for the last 8 years? No, but he was better than the alternative the opposition provided. I don't have the "all possible outcomes" crystal ball to look at. And I don't blame the president for every problem in the world.

[aardvark baguette]

I voted for Bush over John Kerry and Al Gore, absolutely. I do regret how the republican party has handled things the last few years, financially. Pretty much the opposite of what I wanted.

Obviously I have more issues with an Obama presidency than a McCain presidency, or I wouldn't have been engaged in 7 pages of conversation.

[aardvark baguette]

I really hope we're not going to turn this into a "people who vote for _____ are ________ " thread.

[tyrion]

I really hope we're not going to turn this into a "people who vote for _____ are ________ " thread.

Not me, you answered my question so I am done.

[Jeepster]

Aside from being a liar, attempting to suck the life force out of the American middle class and a murdering profiteer and completely shirking his responsibility to the people of this nation I think Bush has done a splendid job over all.

[blessingx]

I wish Condi didn't hate politics so much.

And handled her National Security Advisor or Secretary of State positions much better. And was from a party that wasn't afraid of her sexual orientation and at least lesbian rumors. Just think you might have had a smart and experienced Condi as a VP choice over the opposite in Palin. But she may not sleep with men.

grawk, if you still think Bush was better than Gore/Kerry, could you describe the situation you think the country would be in now if either of them was in power? Could we really be in worse shape? Eastern seaboard blown up or something? I'm trying to think realistically how it could be theoretically worse?

And I'm just happy we've avoided Ron Paul supporters in this thread. Okay, I admit. I have intolerance for them.

[grawk]

Perhaps you should participate in the debate over at huffington post or the daily kos? I am not going to put up with comments like that here. Except from Aerius.

[grawk]

And handled her National Security Advisor or Secretary of State positions much better. And was from a party that wasn't afraid of her sexual orientation and at least lesbian rumors. Just think you might have had a smart and experienced Condi as a VP choice over the opposite in Palin.

Now of every source I've seen used in a debate, THAT one takes the cake. Congrats. If Condi'd wanted to run for either VP or President, she'd have been welcomed with open arms.

My guess is that Barak's cabinet will be a lot less diverse than Bush's was.

[Sherwood]

I'm in a similar position as Grawk here. I voted for Bush last election, and stand by that vote. I legitimately do not feel that Kerry would have done a better job, given the circumstances. I also voted for McCain over Bob Barr, though I do regret that vote.

Nonetheless, I like talking about it with you, Tyrion. Most people's political beliefs are set in stone by the time they get their undergraduate degree, but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.

[Jeepster]

Palin is a ridiculous circus clown up on the top of the list with Britney and Paris, no wait, they actually paid for the clothing on their backs.

[ingwe]

Now of every source I've seen used in a debate, THAT one takes the cake. Congrats. If Condi'd wanted to run for either VP or President, she'd have been welcomed with open arms.

My guess is that Barak's cabinet will be a lot less diverse than Bush's was.

As long as we surround ourselves with people of different ethnicity, race, background, and experience--and yet think and act the same way--we have diversity.

Feh.

[aardvark baguette]

@jeepster

**shakes head**

[grawk]

It's reasonable for a president to pick people he agrees with as his cabinet. And again, I'd bet that Bush's cabinet is at least as diverse in opinion as Obama's will be.

[aardvark baguette]

Not me, you answered my question so I am done.

Sorry if I made you uncomfortable

[tyrion]

<snip>

Most people's political beliefs are set in stone by the time they get their undergraduate degree, but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about.

I think there are a lot of people (Republicans) that voted of Obama on Tuesday that would beg to differ.

Sorry if I made you uncomfortable

Not uncomfortable at all. I enjoy arguing and in particular arguing about politics. I am just trying not to:horsey:

[aardvark baguette]

I have faith in Obama's cabinet choices. I dont share the same optimism for his potential choices in supreme court justices. He indicated, at least in my eyes, that he wants justices that can relate to real world situations, and empathize. That is not blind justice. That is "spreading the justice around"

[Sherwood]

I think there are a lot of people (Republicans) that voted of Obama on Tuesday that would beg to differ.

I would disagree here. McCain ended up with about 48% of the popular vote, which encompasses the vast majority of registered Republicans and some independents. That is, unless there were Democrats that voted for him too, which I find unlikely.

You may well have a handful of examples to the contrary, and I've no doubt that you do, but the general trend seems pretty set in stone to me.

[aardvark baguette]

There were definitely a lot of "protest votes" and people who didnt vote at all, from the republican party. Not so much because of Bush, but from the congress/senate and the 2006 scandals. Also the agnostic attitude towards illegals that lasted so long.

[blessingx]

Now of every source I've seen used in a debate, THAT one takes the cake. Congrats. If Condi'd wanted to run for either VP or President, she'd have been welcomed with open arms.

If you find gay sites inherently unworthy of your trust, [ame=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=fluid&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=condoleezza+rice+lesbian+vp+choice&spell=1]perhaps you should ask your friend Google[/ame]. I do though like the DailyKos & Huffington Post remark. Well, the first time anyway.

[aardvark baguette]

Not sure I understand all the Palin/Condi bashing. I thought we were talking about Obama? Palin is going back to Alaska, last I heard.

[grawk]

That was aimed at jeepster, not you. And it's true. This is a site that's supposed to be friends, not a liberal pileon site. I've made similar comments on the other side suggesting freerepublic. If you can't be civil and respectful, don't participate.

I can't say I find a gay site implying that condi wasn't a vp choice because she's gay reliable, no. And from google, every sitesuggesting that was either a liberal blog, or the gay media.

[blessingx]

You know this is a time of collective relief and celebration. What the fuck am I doing debating with people who still think Bush was the correct choice the last eight years? I'm outta this thread.

[ingwe]

It's reasonable for a president to pick people he agrees with as his cabinet. And again, I'd bet that Bush's cabinet is at least as diverse in opinion as Obama's will be.

Bush surrounded himself with people who may have had different opinions--but certainly rarely expressed them. Open debate was highly discouraged at the top levels and down through the ranks.

Clinton, however, surrounded himself with, and encouraged, open debate. He wanted to hear all sides.

Bush was/is intellectually disengaged.

As for Obama, we'll certainly find out. But my guess is there will certainly be less fear.

Edited November 6, 2008 by ingwe
ocd

[aardvark baguette]

You know this is a time of collective relief and celebration. What the fuck am I doing debating with people who still think Bush was the correct choice the last eight years? I'm outta this thread.

Oh come on, I dont smell THAT bad do I?

[tyrion]

I would disagree here. McCain ended up with about 48% of the popular vote, which encompasses the vast majority of registered Republicans and some independents. That is, unless there were Democrats that voted for him too, which I find unlikely.

You may well have a handful of examples to the contrary, and I've no doubt that you do, but the general trend seems pretty set in stone to me.

Exit polling suggests that 10% of Republicans voted for Obama and 10% of Democrats voted for McCain. I imagine we will have more conclusive evidence at some point.