SoCal @ Hilton LAX 10/18/08

[morphsci]

I have also been in contact with Craig concerning, at first, a specific volume control for the BA, and then much more information than I ever wanted to know about volume controls in general. He has been more than transparent about the time line. I have no problem with the tinkering and constant quest for challenges. It's one of the things I enjoy about working with creative people.

As an aside, I'm sticking with the BA because of the aforementioned concerns with the AD1. If that means the BA will only be 91.76834527% of the Aficionado, I'm cool with that.

Back on topic. Looks like an awesome meet. I have to see the Frank Cooter amps in person. Looking foward to CJ09.

[luvdunhill]

I have also been in contact with Craig concerning, at first, a specific volume control for the BA, and then much more information than I ever wanted to know about volume controls in general. He has been more than transparent about the time line. I have no problem with the tinkering and constant quest for challenges. It's one of the things I enjoy about working with creative people.

As an aside, I'm sticking with the BA because of the aforementioned concerns with the AD1. If that means the BA will only be 91.76834527% of the Aficionado, I'm cool with that.

Back on topic. Looks like an awesome meet. I have to see the Frank Cooter amps in person. Looking foward to CJ09.

are you still looking for a nice volume control? if so, check out the bent audio kits. Those would be probably one the best volume control you can find, the best probably being whatever Charles Hansen is putting in his new preamps

[909]

I have also been in contact with Craig concerning, at first, a specific volume control for the BA, and then much more information than I ever wanted to know about volume controls in general. He has been more than transparent about the time line. I have no problem with the tinkering and constant quest for challenges. It's one of the things I enjoy about working with creative people.

As an aside, I'm sticking with the BA because of the aforementioned concerns with the AD1. If that means the BA will only be 91.76834527% of the Aficionado, I'm cool with that.

Back on topic. Looks like an awesome meet. I have to see the Frank Cooter amps in person. Looking foward to CJ09.

i think i saw your volume pot -- very cool! Craig also seemed excited to use it as well.

[morphsci]

are you still looking for a nice volume control? if so, check out the bent audio kits. Those would be probably one the best volume control you can find, the best probably being whatever Charles Hansen is putting in his new preamps

Wow, those are very nice. I already bought a Penny and Giles RF15, so I will stick with that. I'm actually glad I did not see the bent audio site before as the volume control search took way longer than it should have as it was. Thanks for the info.

i think i saw your volume pot -- very cool! Craig also seemed excited to use it as well.

Well that is cool. Craig seemed to be pretty impressed with P&G controls and I respect his opinions on those types of issues.

[909]

Wow, those are very nice. I already bought a Penny and Giles RF15, so I will stick with that. I'm actually glad I did not see the bent audio site before as the volume control search took way longer than it should have as it was. Thanks for the info.

Well that is cool. Craig seemed to be pretty impressed with P&G controls and I respect his opinions on those types of issues.

yup, that's the one i saw. it's impressive just on looks alone.

[Voltron]

it's my understanding that Moth had one, which is why they were able to actually put out products.

Yes, I think that his partner was much more focused on the bottom line, but Icarium is crazy if he thinks Craig "isn't in this to make money." I am not saying that he is out to make a killing -- he constantly undervalues his products based upon his disdain for others who mark up too much -- but this is a business and is a big part of his livelihood. I appreciate Barry's and morphsci's comments about their contentment with the process, and that is great, but lots more people would buy Eddie Current gear if there were a coherent and stable product line with some kind of spacing in between upgrades and new models.

[morphsci]

...., but lots more people would buy Eddie Current gear if there were a coherent and stable product line with some kind of spacing in between upgrades and new models.

No disagreement from me there, and it would be a good thing from many perspectives.

[justin]

it's my understanding that Moth had one, which is why they were able to actually put out products.

like this guy?

I'm gonna need you to go ahead and build amps on Saturday

[guzziguy]

<snip>

I appreciate Barry's and morphsci's comments about their contentment with the process, and that is great, but lots more people would buy Eddie Current gear if there were a coherent and stable product line with some kind of spacing in between upgrades and new models.

I think that this is where Ray shines compared to the other amp makers, with Jan possibly being an exception. He does a better job of marketing and manufacturing his amps. He builds up interest at the right time and then is prepared to ship product immediately after it's officially announced for release. He also has a coherent product line, at least until recently. I think that he's overloaded the portable side of his line. Only time will tell though. I have to believe that he's going to retire some of the older portable models, but what do I know.

[n_maher]

He also has a coherent product line, at least until recently.

Uhhhh...

I think that he's overloaded the portable side of his line.

You think?

I have to believe that he's going to retire some of the older portable models, but what do I know.

Sure, but his current model is to replace one retired amp (SR71) with at least two new ones (SR71A + Mustang).

Ray Samuels' Design Imperatives:

1. Does it have chips I can paint red?

2. Can I come up with a convenient USAF designation for it?

3. Can I mark it up at least 10x the cost of production?

4. Do I have a shill in place to pimp the ever loving crap out of it? (not really a question, but it belongs on the list none the less)

Once the answer to any of 3 of the above is "YES" then it goes into production.

[n_maher]

that's true, nate, but the point, being that Ray gets his products out there and marketed, stands.

There is no doubt that he manages that part of his business exceptionally well. Gives you an idea of the financial resources he has at his disposal.

[spritzer]

A markup that high is sure nice to have and the idiots willing to pay it.

[909]

i can't say i disagree with much of what has been said in this "meet impressions" thread, but it appears everyone in this business has their achilles heel. and in my experience nitpicking and bitching about it isn't going to change a damn thing nor can i see it as something that builds up our hobby either. my biggest gripe is if i feel something is way overpriced and slick marketing or salesmanship. it is unfortunate in our hobby, the good businessmen tend to succeed financially and i suspect that is high on their priority list. great artists are usually never fully appreciated or understood.

[guzziguy]

that's true, nate, but the point, being that Ray gets his products out there and marketed, stands.

Yes. Please note that I carefully avoided any comments about design. If Ray can get 10x markup, then more power to him. I don't understand it, but then I don't have to.

[Asr]

like this guy?

I'm gonna need you to go ahead and build amps on Saturday

In an ideal world cloning would exist, and then I'd send Justin through the cloning machine twice. One clone would take care of all the amp-building, and the other would handle customer service, while the original tells them what to do Lumbergh-style and gets to enjoy his life & spare time.

[morphsci]

you'd probably end up with two drooling infants, with short life-spans, instead.

But then they could be president.

[lostonetr]

wonder, if he's already got 1000 stax headphones. \

makes no sense to limit the pool of potential customers as some may not want those cans or even already own them

I haven't read every page. so if someone already said this, my bad.

I'd asked him about it too. He said it was for the convenience of setting up proper customer support at first. That way their reps would be more used to that stax unit. Since the tweaking/tuning configuration would be different for other headphones, just to make the process smoother in the begining he said it would be with the stax.

I'd asked about the pricing, he also said around $3k with the stax. And, according to my memory--which is poor at best, he stated that the stax was roughly about 600 of that 3k.

[Augsburger]

That is kind of what I recall in my conversation with Stephen as well.

I think their decision to focus on one brand and model of HP is a good one especially given the intent is for the product not to be all things to all people but to be a different home theater experience with excellent audio to be a secondary goal. Similar to the concept of why home theater equipment manufacturers try to focus on home theater specific implementations with high end audio secondary. Trying to be all things to all people is a fail in the making.

[foo_me]

Just to clarify what's going on with Craig since I had a chance to drop by his place today:

(copied from head-fi)

I know there's some confusion regarding the Afficianado and the BA. As far as the amps go, Craig says they're basically the same amps using the same circuit, hence he was thinking of charging the same amount except for the tubes. However, the Afficianado was intended for a different line of products that he's partnering with someone else on...more along the lines of speakers, amps, and preamp (the Afficianado)...hence, the different name and chassis.

For my purposes and those on head-fi, it seems there's really no reason to pick the Afficianado over the BA since they are the same amp, except for maybe the aesthetics.

The only question that remains is the AD1 tube. Depending upon how they sound, he may or may not offer that tube option on the BA. RIght now, I love how the 307a sounds on it and the amp would be really special if it sounded better with the AD1. Morevoer, I believe the Afficianado will be developed later possibly later half of next year with the priorities being the Zana Deux, Zana T (transformer version, and the BA.

Also, had a nice listen of BA, nice and very noticeable improvement over the version at Icarium's mini meet.

[Icarium]

Ah cool that clears everything up for me.