Mahler and other organick musicks

[Dusty Chalk]

So has anyone been following the Mahler thread on Head-Fi -- someone want to synopsize? I want to get a decent Mahler boxset, such as the Klaus Tennstedt from EMI Classics or something. I realize people prefer individual symphonies, but is there any mention of a decent complete symphonies cycle? Or does someone have their own opinion that they would want to share with me? Performance is more important than fidelity, but if it's too bad, let me know -- I don't want any of these 2kHz bandwidth historical recordings.

[TheSloth]

Get the DG Box set of Bernstein from the late 1980's, which also includes all the orchestra lieder. All live recordings, all superbly played by the worlds 4 finest orchestras at the time (NY Phil (1, 2, 3, 4), Berlin Phil (5), Vienna Phil (6), Royal Concertegbow (7, 8 (?), 9, 10), and also very well recorded (surprising as that is for early digital). This has nothing to do with the Mahler thread on head-fi. I refuse to read it because I can't quite cope with watching the way people talk about what I do for a living, but that is my top recommendation. Problem is, it's damn expensive.

Edit: there is also a set of Bernstein form early in his life. I am specifically recommending the one from the 1980's that is completely live.

[Dusty Chalk]

Which one? This one:

This one:

Or these:

...or yet another one? What about these DVD's:

And if you don't mind my asking, what is it you do for a living, again?

[TheSloth]

Which one? This one:

This one:

That one! It's very special.

[TheSloth]

Is this the first classical music thread on head-case? BRAVO!

[Dusty Chalk]

Hmmm...you may be right...I listen to a lot of classical, though.

So what is it you do for a living, if you don't mind my asking?

Oh, and peh! that's also the most expensive of the lot...I'll see what I can do...

And, dagnabit, that isn't the set that's been released on SACD, is it?

[TheSloth]

Hmmm...you may be right...I listen to a lot of classical, though.

So what is it you do for a living, if you don't mind my asking?

Oh, and peh! that's also the most expensive of the lot...I'll see what I can do...

And, dagnabit, that isn't the set that's been released on SACD, is it?

I said it was expensive! Worth every penny where I bought it, or cent where you'll buy it. I don't know what prices you are seeing, but I paid ?90 for it.

And for a living, I toil away at that thing in my avatar (aka. concert pianist).

[Dusty Chalk]

Are you really? I'm not a concert pianist, but I'm a pianist (I call the piano my "first instrument", as it is both my first instrument, as well as my first love -- first loves are always pretty special). I'm pretty good (better than most of the dreck one hears on pop/rock radio, not as good as most classically trained pianists, I.E. you; at the height of my discipline, I played Rachmaninov's Prelude in C sharp minor. Well [played it for my guild...erm...I forget what they were called, it was like a test...audition? No, I wasn't auditioning for anything...but I was alone with the judge...]. I.E. as good or better than most recorded versions I've heard).

You ever played Saint-Saens' 2nd Piano Concerto? Currently my favourite, after maybe Rachmaninov's.

[TheSloth]

Are you really? I'm not a concert pianist, but I'm a pianist (I call the piano my "first instrument", as it is both my first instrument, as well as my first love -- first loves are always pretty special). I'm pretty good (better than most of the dreck one hears on pop/rock radio, not as good as most classically trained pianists, I.E. you; at the height of my discipline, I played Rachmaninov's Prelude in C sharp minor. Well [played it for my guild...erm...I forget what they were called, it was like a test...audition? No, I wasn't auditioning for anything...but I was alone with the judge...]. I.E. as good or better than most recorded versions I've heard).

You ever played Saint-Saens' 2nd Piano Concerto? Currently my favourite, after maybe Rachmaninov's.

Where are you from? The only thing that starts with Guild... is The Guildhall in London (that I know of).

Glad to see people who have some hold on reality when they put their headphones one. That is becoming all too rare with so much 'music' that doesn't even exist in an unamplified, organic medium.

Who do you have playing those concerti?

[Dusty Chalk]

My favourite of the Saint-Saens is Andr? Watts, but I have several others, including the Hough set. I don't remember any disappointing.

Don't know who my favourite of Rachmaninov's 2nd is, but lately I've been listening a lot to H?l?ne Grimaud's from the "wolf" box set, and I have trouble faulting it. So that would be my current favourite.

And one of these days, I'm going to learn Mussorgsky's Pictures, and the piano part of Schubert's 2nd Piano Trio in E flat. Yeah, I'm grounded in reality. :spacecadet:

No, the Guild is, I believe, an American thing, National Piano Players Guild Association or something like that. It was many many years ago (1981 I quit taking formal piano lessons, and I think my last Guild recital/test/audition/thingy was 1979). I am from the DC area.

[TheSloth]

My favourite of the Saint-Saens is Andr? Watts, but I have several others, including the Hough set. I don't remember any disappointing.

Don't know who my favourite of Rachmaninov's 2nd is, but lately I've been listening a lot to H?l?ne Grimaud's from the "wolf" box set, and I have trouble faulting it. So that would be my current favourite.

And one of these days, I'm going to learn Mussorgsky's Pictures, and the piano part of Schubert's 2nd Piano Trio in E flat. Yeah, I'm grounded in reality. :spacecadet:

No, the Guild is, I believe, an American thing, National Piano Players Guild Association or something like that. It was many many years ago (1981 I quit taking formal piano lessons, and I think my last Guild recital/test/audition/thingy was 1979). I am from the DC area.

Pictures isn't that difficult actually, and being a collection, you just skip out the ones you can't manage!!!

And Reks, did they teach you anything useful over at Oberlin?

[Yikes]

The closest thing to a SACD Mahler cycle is the SFS Thomas. I like them a lot, but talk about expensive

http://www.shopsfsymphony.org/generic.jsp?id=MAHLER_PROJECT_OVERVIEW

[Dusty Chalk]

ooh ooh, can i play? i have half a clarinet performance degree from a major american conservatory (i'm sure you can guess it from my location). and there is nothing wrong with purely electronic music.

Yes, of course you can play! Will you or some other moderator please change the subject of this thread to "Mahler and other organick musicks"?

And...how does one obtain "half" a degree? Or is it that you have a degree in half a clarinet? And if so, which half? Or is it a degree in half a clarinet performance? And if so, which half?

And Re: electronic music -- I don't think there's anything wrong with it, neither, but I have to agree that it's not grounded in reality. I've stated many times (in defense of headphone listening, for example) that the concept of "soundstage" (and even more so, "absolute phase") in 99% of contemporary music is ludicrous, because things like phase on individual tracks are out of phase with other tracks, and the result is shot to hell. Just you wait and see, when I get my band going, and we take a break from it to do side projects and solo albums, I'm going to do some music that's going to have artificial yet very realistic soundstaging.

[Dusty Chalk]

The closest thing to a SACD Mahler cycle is the SFS Thomas. I like them a lot, but talk about expensive

http://www.shopsfsymphony.org/generic.jsp?id=MAHLER_PROJECT_OVERVIEW

You know, I saw that as a limited box set when it first came out, and I'm still kicking myself for not picking it up.

[Yikes]

You know, I saw that as a limited box set when it first came out, and I'm still kicking myself for not picking it up.

Me thinkest you be mistaken. The San Francisco Michael Tilson Thomas Mahler (Hybrid SACD/CD) releases have been released when ready, and since they are still lacking No. 5 and No. 8 and the unfinished 10th it?s hardly a complete cycle.

I just looked at their web site and you can buy a Mahler Collection (Box set) to save a little money, but it?s not a complete cycle.

[Yikes]

If you are looking for SACD?s there are also the Ben Zander Telarc discs. Zander has done 1,3,4,5,6,9 I have all of them (As well as all of the MTT). Unfortunately no 2nd yet, and Telarc says it?s not forthcoming.

Overall I think I prefer the Zander, although I am in no way disappointed that I purchased the MTT. Zander is actually a well-known Mahlerite. His 6th is to die for, and I adore his Songs of a Wayfarer that?s on the disc with the 1st.

I have a large Mahler collection of which I just went thru the Hi-rez section, and I?m missing several discs. Zander?s 9th and MTT 4th (along with a Shostakovich 11th that I love) are MIA. Shit! Now I?m going to be up all night looking for them.

[Dusty Chalk]

I just looked at their web site and you can buy a Mahler Collection (Box set) to save a little money, but it’s not a complete cycle.

Yeah, maybe that's what I saw.

[TheSloth]

If you are looking for SACD?s there are also the Ben Zander Telarc discs. Zander has done 1,3,4,5,6,9 I have all of them (As well as all of the MTT). Unfortunately no 2nd yet, and Telarc says it?s not forthcoming.

Overall I think I prefer the Zander, although I am in no way disappointed that I purchased the MTT. Zander is actually a well-known Mahlerite. His 6th is to die for, and I adore his Songs of a Wayfarer that?s on the disc with the 1st.

I have a large Mahler collection of which I just went thru the Hi-rez section, and I?m missing several discs. Zander?s 9th and MTT 4th (along with a Shostakovich 11th that I love) are MIA. Shit! Now I?m going to be up all night looking for them.

Oh the stories I could tell you about Ben Zander, or perhaps the trumped up stories he might tell you about himself... Benjamin Zander is a testament to what you can acheive in this world if you enter it rich and don't mind leaving it poor.

Tilson-Tuchus (always liked that one ) has a fine set there, but they are somewhat 'clean' and 'refined'. There is also something special in hearing the Vienna Phil play Mahler - after all it was written for them, and the Vienna wind and brass instruments are uniquely designed, with a timbre and blend that is only approximated by other orchestras. Not that I don't love other performances (all of the other orchestras in the Bernstein set are of course fantastic), but it's worth mentioning nonetheless.

The European orchestras also have a sort of 'go for broke' approach to brass playing that is very much frowned upon in the US, particularly in New York - they fire people just for lifting the bell of the horn off their leg... The Americans go for a clean, tight and rich sound, and the Europeans go for maximum energy and expression at the expense of a little control.

[Dusty Chalk]

Understood. The next time I see that Bernstein set for cheap(er than list), I'll get it.

I need it to be "involving", since I don't fully "get" Mahler. You know how there are some composers whose music "plays itself" -- all you have to do is go through the motions, and it will pretty much enchant you (Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Bach come to mind)? Mahler doesn't work that way for me (I realize it's a totally subjective thing).

[thrice]

bzzzzzzzt, it was CCM. and no, they didn't

sure, dude.i got so fed up with how CCM was run that i just decided to completely quit music a little ways into my third year. what really pissed me off was being placed in the high ensembles in blind auditions at the beginning of each year and then being placed in lower ones by the directors because it wasn't fair to the precious graduate students. why even bother having blind auditions, then? also, i don't think i learned a single thing from my professor. he was a once really good player and teacher who was on the verge of retirement. that really killed my drive to practice, which of course reduced my skill. i would have switched professors, but they made it very difficult to do, as you were supposed to have some kind of loyalty. it was a bunch of horse shit. i nearly went to Eastman (i was an alternate), amd i sometimes wonder how my "career" might have been different if i had, but at the end of the day i think i just wasn't suited to music, as a profession. i'm much happier after a history degree and most of a comp-lit degree. i just wish that CCM hadn't driven me from the clarinet. i haven't picked it up in years now, and having to rebuild my embouchure would be such a pain.

Wow...OT, but I too went to CCM for a Masters in Saxophone performance....my brother has a masters in percussion performance. i too did not like CCM...bunch of horseshit indeed. The percussion department is killer so the lil' bro has a degree from there...I went elswhere to finish my degree and then quit the saxophone...for now.

Oh yes, I'm not a big Maher fan...just so this gets back OT.

[thrice]

I was there from 99-2000. It's cause they keep breaking things huh? Yeah those guys need to stop hitting shit with malletts.....they get carried away

[thrice]

i was there 1999-2002, so we might have seen each other in the halls, or something. the problem isn't so much the breaking stuff as the whining about not having administrator rights and the implied threats that if administrator rights aren't granted that the technology committee will "do something about it."

LOL...Haha...I wish I had admin rights to my work computer too.....that's funny...it's gotta suck to have to call IT in order to download porn....errrr.....software.

[Dusty Chalk]

So what's the opinion of Gergiev? I have his Pictures on SACD, and it's quite good. I noticed he's done some of Shostakovich's symphonies, and I want to try out some Shostakovich -- are his a good place to start? For comparison's sake, I really like von Karajan -- if he's done something that I want to hear, I make sure and get his version.

On another note, I need more. I really liked that Bartok Concerto for Orchestra on Living Stereo. Anything like that? I don't know what to call it, modern romantic?

Also: Saint-Saens' Piano Concerto, Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto, stuff like that -- big, melodramatic, and written in a minor key.

I also need more chamber music, like Schubert's stuff -- any recommendations for his Trout as best recording/performance? How about Death and the Maiden? Any other chamber music I should check out?