2008 Rocky Mountain Audio Fest

[deepak]

It is interesting that so many vendors are using computers as their source.

Great pics and impressions. Thanks for the shot of the Galibier Gavia.

I agree :drool:

[tyrion]

It is interesting that so many vendors are using computers as their source.

I agree :drool:

I noticed the computers as well, along with the wadia/ipod combo.

The Gavia is a beauty. I really have my heart set on the Serac. The nice thing with Galibier is that there is a clear upgrade path to the higher end gear and he makes it very easy for you to do. You can start out at the bottom and easily move your way up without losing anything on the old gear. Right now I am just trying to figure out the timing. I could sell my Hyperspace now (assuming anyone has any money to buy any gear at the moment) and use that for the down payment. The build time is 6-10 weeks which should work out for me for the balance.

[Salt Peanuts]

Did you happen to get the name of the person running the Boulder room? I'm wondering if my old high school friend still works there.

[deepak]

Von Schweikert VR-9SE fed by unknown turntable & Valve Amplification Company amps

I believe that is a CEC belt drive CD transport.

I noticed the computers as well, along with the wadia/ipod combo.

The Gavia is a beauty. I really have my heart set on the Serac. The nice thing with Galibier is that there is a clear upgrade path to the higher end gear and he makes it very easy for you to do. You can start out at the bottom and easily move your way up without losing anything on the old gear. Right now I am just trying to figure out the timing. I could sell my Hyperspace now (assuming anyone has any money to buy any gear at the moment) and use that for the down payment. The build time is 6-10 weeks which should work out for me for the balance.

Yeah their upgrade path is very nice. I don't think I would be able to go further than a Serac/Artisan Audio tonearm at the moment.

Edited October 12, 2008 by deepak

[tyrion]

Yeah their upgrade path is very nice. I don't think I would be able to go further than a Serac/Artisan Audio tonearm at the moment.

That is exactly what I am thinking at the moment. I hate to go without vinyl for all that time but I may just list my tt on Audiogon to see what I can get. I might pick up a Rega P1 used to have for the duration of the wait.

[Hopstretch]

From this, it looks like they're doing I2S over HDMI. Is that novel?

[deepak]

That is exactly what I am thinking at the moment. I hate to go without vinyl for all that time but I may just list my tt on Audiogon to see what I can get. I might pick up a Rega P1 used to have for the duration of the wait.

I had to break down my setup, so it has been down these last two weeks. Listening to just digital in the in term isn't so bad.

The new Audiogon listing fees are really lame \

From this, it looks like they're doing I2S over HDMI. Is that novel?

I have no idea. But I'm always suspicious of PS Audio gear.

Edited October 12, 2008 by deepak

[tkam]

How much were the Tyler Decades?

I think they are in the $8k price range but I believe there are supposed to be 5 models in the new decade line.

[spritzer]

I believe that is a CEC belt drive CD transport.

It's an Oracle transport and not CEC.

[Hopstretch]

I think they are in the $8k price range but I believe there are supposed to be 5 models in the new decade line.

Based on the design they appear to be, um, drawing inspiration from -- I would have guessed a lot more.

[Pars]

From this, it looks like they're doing I2S over HDMI. Is that novel?

Oh, what a marvelous idea...

DIYHiFi.org • View topic - HDMI and future digital DIY

[tkam]

Tyler Acoustics The Decade D1

These were downright amazing. There was some sort of crazy drum & percussion "music" going when I walked in. In quotes because it was more like a test disc than music. Crazy-fast articulation and tracking of concurrent layers, and it was so damn fast I decided I had to hear what it would do with Massive Attack's "Inertia Creeps" so I handed the CD to the man running the system. I think "Inertia Creeps" bowled over everyone in the room, it was glorious! The speakers were mad-phat on the bass and whacked away at the belly drums really well, while 3D's vocals floated around. Any speaker that can play Massive Attack without embarassing itself deserves kudos!

Did they happen to have the Decade D4's running? They are the two-way monitors, if you heard them I'd love to get your impressions.

[Asr]

RMAF 2008 - Sunday 10/12 - Equipment Impressions

*** Corrections: Just wanted to correct myself on some statements I wrote in the previous posts. The balanced & single-ended Denons in HeadRoom's room were the D5000, not the D2000. Also the D7000 has a $1K MSRP in the USA, I incorrectly assumed it was cheaper than that.

Sennheiser HE-90 w/ Singlepower ES-1 off Meridian 508.24: This was the 2nd time I've heard the HE-90, the first time was at a Head-Fi meet. Not sure what the tube complement on the ES-1 was. The setup did sound very good - there was bass, mid-range, and treble - but it didn't engage me. I prefer a relative treble tilt on my headphones which this setup did not deliver.

AKG K701 balanced vs single-ended on HeadRoom's Max Balanced Amp & Wadia CDP: I brought in my own SAA Equinox-balanced K701 to do a personal comparison between balanced and single-ended, and to also check out the Max Balanced and Wadia. The balanced K701 seemed to be an improvement in most areas, but the "improvement" wasn't entirely positive, at least as far my preferences with the K701 go. I've always liked the K701's combo of open soundstage, overall clarity, and a relative treble spike. The balanced K701 compacted the soundstage a bit in the left/right direction but it was even MORE 3D than what it already was - left, center, right, up, and down. The balanced K701 also sounded faster and developed even more prodigious bass. Anyone who complains about the K701 lacking bass definitely hasn't heard a balanced K701 - it was amazing! I've never felt the K701's bass was a weak point against it (I've always liked its control) but for those who do think so, well those people should have nothing to complain about with the balanced K701 - it was punchy, hard, and visceral. It pounded. Well, at least with the Equinox re-cable.

As far as the amp and Wadia CDP go, well obviously I can't leverage any complaints against the amp, since it's an amp and HeadRoom's best. I will however say that the Wadia was disappointing as a source - the resulting sound to my headphones wasn't very focused and was too soft-edged. It also lost some dynamic snap.

Ascento C8 towers: very nice overall. It played deep bass notes nicely (audibly extending to at least 40 Hz) and projected a wide soundstage.

MaxxHorn Lumination towers: also very nice overall. These however lacked a bit in the sub-50 Hz area, and didn't project outwards very well. The imaging was a bit on the flat side.

Kaiser Kawero! towers: very good overall. These had strong bass that anchored very well - I kept using Alison Krauss' "Let Me Touch You For Awhile" as my reference and it played the track with ease. It didn't really bowl me over by anything though - it was fine, but didn't do anything special.

YG Acoustics Kipod: YG Acoustics advertises this speaker [And their "The best loudspeakers on Earth. Period." ad in Stereophile is actually for the Anat Reference II Studio.] in every issue of Stereophile as "The best loudspeakers on the planet. Period.", so I went in with high expectations. Um, they were fine speakers, but that's mega-huge overhype. These speakers didn't do anything special either. They easily handled the acoustic music I was able to throw at it in a limited time span, but they didn't seem like they'd be able to throw down Massive Attack, The Crystal Method, or Porcupine Tree - they weren't dynamic enough (as in, not enough range or low-volume subtlety), the bass while plentiful didn't ooze authoritative power, and while it's a preference, I also expect a speaker that advertises itself as the best on the planet to have fully audible treble extension & attack, which it clearly did not. YG Acoustics has to be full of themselves to make this claim.

RMAF 2008 - Sunday 10/12 - Pics

Harbeth M40.1 stand-mount semi-tower

Ascento C8 fed by Esoteric CDP and Nova Physics Memory Player

Nova Physics Memory Player

Escalante Uinta subwoofers (Juniper bookshelves in background) w/ Electrocompaniet PC-1, EC 4.8, AW 2x120-M

MaxxHorn Audio Immersion towers fed by Ayon CD-1/Lector 0.6 CDP and Ayon Triton

Escalante Design Fremont fed by Ayon CD-3 and Ayon Triton

Escalante Design Pinyon bookshelves fed by Electrocompaniet source and amps

MaxxHorn Lumination fed by Ayon CD-1 and Ayon Crossfire

Ayon Triton power amp, KT88 tubes

Acoustic Zen Maestro towers fed by DEQX processor and Halcro dm88 amps

Legend Acoustics Tikandi towers

Hyatt Regency Tech Center (2nd hotel) - Lobby to Mezzanine

Kaiser Kawero! tower fed by CEC TL-51X, Lessloss DAC 2004, & Mastersound 845

CEC TL-51X transport, Lessloss DAC 2004, & Mastersound 845 monoblocks

For The Record's vinyl stash

Composite Products LLC's equipment rack

Vendor Area - vendor unknown

Virtual Dynamics...and the pictured guy is NOT Matt Carter, I asked him if he was

Vendor Area - vendor unknown

Acoustic Sounds' vinyl stash

Singlepower Audio Harmony XLR

Singlepower ES-1 w/ Sennheiser HE-90 and Stax Lambda Pro

YG Acoustics Kipod fed by dCS Scarlatti stack

Edited October 13, 2008 by deepak
request double image deletion

[Asr]

RMAF 2008 - Show Impressions Overall

Whew. What a mad rush of listening to tons of speakers over 3 days.

I actually started my speaker listening pre-RMAF at a local dealer to check out some Monitor Audio and PSB speakers (which did not have a presence at RMAF). I did this to set a personal benchmark - the Monitor Audio and PSB speakers were under $1.5K which, in the grand scheme of speakers, is on the extreme budget side - some models at RMAF ran over $100K.

Having heard what I did over 3 days, I can say with certainty that there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. None of the speakers turned my audio perceptions upside down - there were some I thought were absolute crap, most were decent, and only a few actually impressed me enough that I could say "wow that sounds really good and I have no or very few complaints!" I think the people who think that mega-thousand speakers will actually add something to their listening experience are either mostly crazy or delusioned.

I also think the people who buy or produce mega-thousand speakers and listen to that tired old slow jazz or blues need to be cast out from the audiophile world. I have nothing against those genres, but the people who listen to that, and the people who think that those genres are somehow "audiophiley" are just plain stupid. Some genre CDs may be better tests than the rest, but it was aggravating to keep going into room after room playing the same tired, sleepy music. Oh I heard some rock music here and there, but even then it was the softer laid-back stuff from the 60s or 70s. There was almost nothing remotely close to alive & energetic - of course the age demographic had a lot to do with this, but I found it completely stupid. If I buy speakers, I expect them to handle everything from medieval baroque to avant-garde & electronica, chronologically speaking. If speaker vendors are catering to the world market of audiophiles, then they need to develop with every genre in mind! If I could strangle the vendors who make speakers that have no low bass or high treble, I totally would. Wtf do they think they're contributing, and what kind of pathetic music do they listen to? And some of them somehow think charging more than $100K is acceptable for that kind of speaker? Maybe they're deaf.

That said, at least RMAF was an eye-opening (and ear-opening) experience. I have a much better idea of what kind of price range is sensible for my application and probably most people's who have limited budgets. I think I'd say the sweet spot in speakers is up to $10K - the speakers beyond had average sonic gain at best, and that was with high-end sources and amplification. Personally I think it makes the most sense to buy speakers up to $5K. You can get damn good sound for up to that price and really not be missing much, if anything.

On a final note, it was good to see HeadRoom and Tyll at RMAF. You've just gotta love it - if there's anyone to bring headphone audio to this show, it'd have to be Tyll. And he was great as always, herding people in to check out headphones. Kudos to him and HeadRoom for coming to the show.

Double whew now. That concludes my independent show coverage, I think I've beaten Stereophile's and Enjoy The Music's and have posted better, larger pics as well.

Did you happen to get the name of the person running the Boulder room? I'm wondering if my old high school friend still works there.

Boulder Amps didn't have their own room (their equipment was in a multi-vendor room run by a dealer), but I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone in there, sorry. There was so many rooms at RMAF and I wanted to see them all, was too strapped for time.

Did they happen to have the Decade D4's running? They are the two-way monitors, if you heard them I'd love to get your impressions.

Nope, there weren't any speakers smaller than the Decade D1 in that room.

[Asr]

How much were the Tyler Decades? That new PS Audio stuff is hawt looking, too. How did it sound?

Didn't see this earlier, would've included it in my multi-quote. I neglected to ask about the price and it's not on the literature I took from the room. The new PS Audio transport & DAC weren't hooked up to any speakers - so no impressions on them. I was told they're expanding their facility though so they can start manufacturing these soon. I can get back on how they sound next year when they're in production, since PS Audio is only 10 minutes from where I work.

[Iron_Dreamer]

Having heard what I did over 3 days, I can say with certainty that there's no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. None of the speakers turned my audio perceptions upside down - there were some I thought were absolute crap, most were decent, and only a few actually impressed me enough that I could say "wow that sounds really good and I have no or very few complaints!" I think the people who think that mega-thousand speakers will actually add something to their listening experience are either mostly crazy or delusioned.

I also think the people who buy or produce mega-thousand speakers and listen to that tired old slow jazz or blues need to be cast out from the audiophile world. I have nothing against those genres, but the people who listen to that, and the people who think that those genres are somehow "audiophiley" are just plain stupid. Some genre CDs may be better tests than the rest, but it was aggravating to keep going into room after room playing the same tired, sleepy music. Oh I heard some rock music here and there, but even then it was the softer laid-back stuff from the 60s or 70s. There was almost nothing remotely close to alive & energetic - of course the age demographic had a lot to do with this, but I found it completely stupid. If I buy speakers, I expect them to handle everything from medieval baroque to avant-garde & electronica, chronologically speaking. If speaker vendors are catering to the world market of audiophiles, then they need to develop with every genre in mind! If I could strangle the vendors who make speakers that have no low bass or high treble, I totally would. Wtf do they think they're contributing, and what kind of pathetic music do they listen to? And some of them somehow think charging more than $100K is acceptable for that kind of speaker? Maybe they're deaf.

Hmmm....not surprised

[diebenkorn]

Thanks Asr for your impressions, great reading.

[Hopstretch]

Seconded. Really enjoyed your report. Thanks!

PS: If you like the Monitor Audio sound, you should definitely try to listen to a pair of their GS-60s as they would likely be right up your street. Or you could haunt Audiogon until a pair of Dunlavys show up somewhere near you. Pretty much the holy grail for those who primarily value speed and impact. They sell quite cheaply, mainly because they are all but impossible to ship at between 200 and 500 lbs a piece.

[Pars]

Thirded... nice writeup and really good pics!

[tyrion]

Your impressions and pics were better than Enjoythemusic and Stereophile's coverage.

[deepak]

Asr I assume you didn't hear the Kimber/Pass Labs/Sound Lab electrostatic setup?

This is what it looks like (pic from enjoythemusic), hard to miss

[strid3r]

Thanks Asr, really enjoyed your impressions. Easy to understand and straight to the point.

[Asr]

Sounds like you went to the Odyssey room? Did you talk to Klaus? He's a trip... really great guy. Any impressions on the rest of their gear, and were they showing anything new (amp/preamp)?

I did talk to Klaus, yup he was definitely a really cool guy. Very passionate about his speakers. He loved Porcupine Tree's In Absentia right away too, I suspect he'll be getting their CDs soon. Impressions and pics were also posted Saturday night.

I noticed the computers as well, along with the wadia/ipod combo.

This reminds me, the Wadia room with the Dynaudio speakers was Wadia's and one of the guys kept ranting on and on about the 170iTransport and literally hawking it between CD tracks. I was like geez man, I understand Wadia is here to implicitly sell its products but the guy was so transparent it was outright eye-rolling. And he did not let anyone listen to an entire CD track either - he consistently interrupted playback after a couple minutes even if it was obvious there was more to a CD track. The CDP in the room was also the 781i SE, and I asked him about the DACs in it (because they're not mentioned on the site or on the Internet) and he just generically said they were "Burr Brown". The top panel was off so I took a closer look to see if I could spot the DACs but they weren't in plain sight (hidden by another top-level PCB).

PS: If you like the Monitor Audio sound, you should definitely try to listen to a pair of their GS-60s as they would likely be right up your street. Or you could haunt Audiogon until a pair of Dunlavys show up somewhere near you. Pretty much the holy grail for those who primarily value speed and impact. They sell quite cheaply, mainly because they are all but impossible to ship at between 200 and 500 lbs a piece.

Yup I do like the Monitor Audio sound (if the RS8 is any indication), I'll be spending much more time with their speakers in the future. The GS20 or GS60 are the ones I'm setting long-term aspirations to.

Asr I assume you didn't hear the Kimber/Pass Labs/Sound Lab electrostatic setup?

This is what it looks like (pic from enjoythemusic), hard to miss

kimberzp6.jpg

I saw this setup but it was crowded so I didn't bother hanging around long. I didn't stick around in rooms that I saw were crowded - if I saw I couldn't ask to hear one of my own CDs easily, I usually left quickly. I also tried a few pics in that room but none came out very well.

[Salt Peanuts]

Boulder Amps didn't have their own room (their equipment was in a multi-vendor room run by a dealer), but I didn't get a chance to talk to anyone in there, sorry. There was so many rooms at RMAF and I wanted to see them all, was too strapped for time.

No problem. I accidentally lost his contact info and was just wondering if he was still at Boulder Amps before I shoot the company an e-mail as a last resort to get back in touch with him.

Oh, and thanks for all the pretty photos and reports!

[Torpedo]

Your impressions and pics were better than Enjoythemusic and Stereophile's coverage.

Not only for the quality of the write up, but also for not trying to convince us that every single room had wonderful sound.

Music used for audio evaluation is very important. If you don't manage to get a girl singing with just an upright bass and guitar sounding right,then forget about getting some "serious" music being listenable. I agree with Asr's assertion that the music "audio people" use to show their systems become tiring and mostly worthless for any serious evaluation. However sometimes it can be useful for some sound-wise purposes.