Hagerman Bugle + DL-103 Revisited

[postjack]

Hagerman Bugle + DL-103

Associated Equipment:

Technics SL1200MK2

Sumiko Headshell

Cambridge Audio 840A

Quad 22L

Introduction

I remember when I first got into vinyl blah blah roy gandy is a swell guy.

The Story

While the DL-103 > Cinemag SUT > Bottlehead Seduction sounds great with rock recordings, I've been experiencing some brightness when listening to certain jazz records which I know aren't mastered bright (Hoffman 45s).

After trying to do everything I could with my speakers (move to and fro front and side walls, toe-in), and confident that my cartridge is setup perfectly, I remembered something I read about cartridge brightness usually having to do with loading. Looking up the impedance of the Seduction, I found it is 47K ohms. The recommended loading for the DL-103 ranges anywhere from 100-1000ohms, or sometimes higher, depending on who you ask.

"If only I had a phono stage laying around with lower impedance!" I proclaimed loudly to myself. But wait, I do! My Bugle was built to mate with the DL-103, with a gain of 60db and loading of 470ohms. You might recall that I complained about large amounts of hiss when I used the Bugle previously. However, in that case I was using headphones or near field speakers. "Perhaps now that my speakers are in a larger room, the hiss won't be so bad! Besides, I get an opportunity to at least see if loading is truly part of my brightness issue," I again declared to myself.

So I took both the SUT and Seduction out of the equation, and ran the DL-103 straight into the Bugle and then on into the 840A. The result is significantly less brightness! And this Bugle really is a hell of a performer. It handled that subtle jazz midrange well, and completely rocked the bass on Black Cow. It gets everything on Ryan Adams' Gold just perfect. I'm seriously impressed by this amazing little unit. And as far as the hiss goes, yes its there, but in my current setup I only hear it inbetween tracks, and there it is not unpleasant at all. Its more like mild tape hiss on a great sounding recording, rather then an annoyance.

So luvdunhill is correct: the Bugle rocks!

So lowering the loading impedance made jazz less bright, and made rock even more silky delicious smooth, without taking away any of the musical "bite" of the DL-103 that I'm so hooked on. I'd love to try the loading all the way down to 100 ohms, and maybe I will if I ever pickup something like the Rogue Stealth.

Tonearm Mass Loading Sidebar

Encouraged by my success with the Bugle, I decided to try a tweak recommended to me here by Torpedo. I didn't have a pretty way of increasing overall tonearm mass, so I scotch taped a penny to the top of my headshell (someone please tell me if this is a bad idea). I tried two pennies, but then I didn't have enough counterweight to get the VTF back to 2.5g.

The result is, I believe based on early listening, increased bass and dynamics. Pretty awesome. It'd be nice to find a more permanent solution, maybe something I could put between the cartridge and the headshell.

Disclaimer: I'm no vinyl expert, having only been into the stuff for a scant 18 months. I would greatly appreciate any technical corrections more knowledgable folks can provide, when I get into the realm of ohms and such things can easily end up over my head.

[luvdunhill]

Hey, send me your Bugle I'll set the input impedance to 100 ohms for you and make it so you can change it yourself in the future.

Also, try blu-tack instead of the penny w/ tape. That's what I use now

[postjack]

Hey, send me your Bugle I'll set the input impedance to 100 ohms for you and make it so you can change it yourself in the future.

Also, try blu-tack instead of the penny w/ tape. That's what I use now

Blu-tack, great idea!

PM inc.

[luvdunhill]

If I recall, I used 150 ohm loading with my DL-103. I was using a BAT phono stage. Is the gain sufficient with the Bugle in your system? Where is the listening dial on your pre / integrated?

edit: also, you realize you can roll the opamps in this, right? I'll see what I have on hand that might work for you.

[postjack]

If I recall, I used 150 ohm loading with my DL-103. I was using a BAT phono stage. Is the gain sufficient with the Bugle in your system? Where is the listening dial on your pre / integrated?

edit: also, you realize you can roll the opamps in this, right? I'll see what I have on hand that might work for you.

I do believe that now the gain in my system is sufficient. I keep the volume on my 840A between -27 and -20, if that tells you anything. Well it tells you that I still have headroom to swing the pot, I suppose. It would be great if the gain was more easily adjustable on the Bugle as well, so I could try it out with a SUT if I wanted to, but I understand that might not be possible.

[luvdunhill]

I do believe that now the gain in my system is sufficient. I keep the volume on my 840A between -27 and -20, if that tells you anything.

heh, nope -20 out of -60 perhaps? what is it with the other phono pre setup? I'm just curious if the hiss is coming from the Bugle, or perhaps the 840A. And secondly, if you can afford to lower the gain on the Bugle a bit, which would decrease the noise. Also, same questions apply for any headphone amps you've used (both) with.

[DigiPete]

My Denon DL160 came with an extra weight (plate) that you could mount between the headshell and cartridge.

I think you can buy those as well. Just make sure you get truly non-magnetic ones.

[luvdunhill]

PJ: I might have a VPI mouting plate if you're interested in purchasing it from me. They're absurdly expensive for what they are though..

[deepak]

Just curious what's Black Cow?

[deepak]

Ah yes I recognize that tune now.

[postjack]

Well my Bugle just returned from a vacation in Texas. It had some surgery done on it, some new opamps rolled in and the loading switched down to 100ohms, per the desire expressed in my OP.

Basically my suspicions were correct: 100ohms is the perfect loading for this cartridge, at least for me, in my setup. Here is a paste of the PM I just sent Marc:

DAMN! Since I got it back, I've spent a lot of quality time with the Bugle, across a variety of genres, and DAMN! Fucking unreal. I don't know how much of this is attributed to the impedance change and how much to the opamp swap, but DAMN, this cheap ass phono sounds marvelous.

Here's the biggest change I notice: the far extremes of the sound spectrum are much more even and neutral. Its like the whole spectrum was just smooshed down just enough to shave off brightness (ZERO brightness now, even on not so well recorded 50s jazz) and to bring some of the floppy lower bass back into the lower midbass region. The result is a much easier listening experience, a much more visceral and impactful bottom end, and for some reason a much more prominent midrange. I swear, it is like before you modded the Bugle the sound spectrum was too stretched out, and now its just perfect.

The funny thing is, I think I might prefer the 100ohm to the 470ohm because I'm in a smaller room. If I had the 22Ls in a large and long room, the bass would have more room to breathe and the treble would have more room to disappate, so maybe then I would appreciate 470ohm or even 1000ohm loading more, as I hear many people claim is perfection for the DL-103. Screw it anyway, I'm pleased as punch in my little room now.

Anyone curious about revisiting the DL-103 who felt it was too bright, I encourage you to try the loading at 100ohms and see how you like it. I'm tried lots of tweaks in my system to tame the brightness of the DL-103, but never have I been able to nail it so that every recording sounds correct in the treble. Finally, with the proper loading, I've found the magick tweack. Zero brightness, all fantastic old school broadcast standard goodness. If you're into that kind of thing.

[luvdunhill]

I'm glad you are enjoying it. I really preferred 100R when I was running the DL-103D (IMHO the ultimate of the series).

Did you have a chance to try the couple different opamps? I had a circuit drawn up to use the National opamp, but just never had a chance to do anything with it. It was basically a Bugle that was designed from the start to handle LOMC. Maybe one day I'll revisit it

[jleezard]

I have two Bugles running now and love them, but as always I'm trying to find new ways to improve them. What Opamp did you use in the modification, and can you recommend loading for a Denon Dl 160 that I just purchased. Thanks.

[postjack]

I haven't done any opamp rolling yet, been to busy to fiddle with gear. I have a few marc sent me I'm going to try.

[luvdunhill]

actually, this is interesting... so, I had ordered pj's parts at Newark and then got annoyed as there was something stupid out of stock and it was going to take 3-4 weeks to get in... well, I forgot to cancel the order... and just got notification yesterday that it shipped. So, if anyone would like a pair of opamps and a SOIC adapter, let me know and I can send them out for a modest fee.

[swt61]

^

Grawk that may be worthwhile for you, if your interested.

[jleezard]

luvdunhill,Postjack

If using the 103R cartridge, did you increase the resistance more than for the standard 103? Or will 100 ohm loading in the Bugle work well for both models?

[luvdunhill]

luvdunhill,Postjack

If using the 103R cartridge, did you increase the resistance more than for the standard 103? Or will 100 ohm loading in the Bugle work well for both models?

I have never owned the 103R, but the if the difference is indeed the resonance control in the front of the headshell, I'd try 100-200 and see what you think. swt61 will be trying 100 and 150 here soon, maybe he can let you know what he thinks.

[swt61]

Will do.

For the record however I have a Zu modded DL 103 Grade 1. It's a nude cartridge style w/resonance control, but I'm not sure if it's the same type of resonance control that is used in Denon's 103R

[jleezard]

Sweet cartridge. I'm really interested in going further with the MC cartridges. I've been using the Bugle for about two years with MM and really enjoy the sound and versatility it offers. Any information that can be given on the Cinemag SUT, Bugle and Denon set up would be most appreciated.

[luvdunhill]

Sweet cartridge. I'm really interested in going further with the MC cartridges. I've been using the Bugle for about two years with MM and really enjoy the sound and versatility it offers. Any information that can be given on the Cinemag SUT, Bugle and Denon set up would be most appreciated.

supposedly a good combo.. I would have gone down that route if I hadn't heard the (then) top of the line SUT (Bent Audio silver S& and was rather let down. Next I listened to the top 3 or 4 high gain solid-state phono preamps and decided that this was where it is at (for me).

[postjack]

The Cinemag is out on extended loan right now.

Eventually I'd like to do some comparisons with an MM phono with loading at 100ohms + cinemag SUT vs. the Bugle, but thats probably a little ways down the road.

[hungrych]

Just tell me when you want it back and I can send it, I'm pretty sure now that I'll buy one when I get the chance.

[luvdunhill]

Just tell me when you want it back and I can send it, I'm pretty sure now that I'll buy one when I get the chance.

The Texas contingent would be very interested in listening to it

[swt61]

Yes please. I'd love to A/B it with my Consonance SUT.