Sony XA-5400ES

[deepak]

Disc Tray opening/closing

Needs more whispering and dim lighting

[aardvark baguette]

heh, I have no idea what it sounds like, or if it even picked up the sound, as I have no mini plug available to listen to the computer. It was taken with a sony cybershot camera

[penger]

The stereophile article was posted. Link

[HiWire]

I can't wait to read the follow-up to that article. It should be interesting to see what Sony will do with the DAC technology in the SCD-XA5400ES. I hope it will not go to waste (e.g. find a new life in upcoming Blu-Ray players, PS3+, or portables)...

Also, I find it interesting that the new player is half the price of the SCD-XA9000ES (still carried in their online store), but is considered to better sounding. It sounds like we might be getting more value for our dollar, for once. Maybe this recession has a silver lining after all.

[aardvark baguette]

For around $1200, you really can't go wrong imo.

[Asher]

For around $1200, you really can't go wrong imo.

It's a bad muthafucka.

[Eric5676]

It's a bad muthafucka.

This might make it even more bad.

Audiocircle Modwright 5400ES link

I'll understand if anyone's wallet decides to send me some hate mail.

[Knuckledragger]

This might make it even more bad.

Audiocircle Modwright 5400ES link

Link requires a login.

[Eric5676]

Link requires a login.

Damn it.

Summary: Modwright - Elegance. Simplicity. Truth.

^^ He's doing a bunch of great solid state and tube mods if anyone's interested. Dan's one of the best out there. The details are in that thread but you have to register on the forum to see it apparently.

[Tachikoma]

Is it really worthwhile to spend $2.5-3k on a tube output stage with 6SN7s? For that kind of money I was expecting DHTs at least.

[luvdunhill]

Is it really worthwhile to spend $2.5-3k on a tube output stage with 6SN7s? For that kind of money I was expecting DHTs at least.

without talking about topology, I can say yes. Many people feel the 6SN7 is the perfect audio tube from a design standpoint.

[Azazel]

I took (on loan) one 5400 unit this morning.

One look at the inside showed all the nice power supply arrangement, but one surprise: the DAC is just one 1796 unit (labeled DSD1796, if that matters).

It is followed by two OPA2132 (dual fet-input opamps), one for channel, into a third OPA2132 for SE outs. All those had nice and close Elna caps for decoupling btw.

Then the second bad surprise was to see one JRC2114 opamp close to each XLR outs. This, and the lone 1796 DAC, makes me suspect those are not 'proper' balanced outs, that is, not taken from the balanced I outs of the DAC. Just the SE outs with a balancer opamp circuit (yuk).

I am wondering too were all the fuss about "a new and revolutionary DAC technology" is... ? Ok, maybe on the digital board, as this unit is supposed to upsample CD data to DSD before going into the DAC.

Btw and if this matters to someone: after one hour the CD sound is not bad, quite smooth, but I am not blown away (yet?).

[deepak]

Do you have pictures (preferably big ones)?

[aardvark baguette]

I never opened mine, but from pics I've seen on other sites, I'm pretty sure there are multiple dacs/boards.

My comprehension of what I'm looking at is minimal at best though.

[Hopstretch]

My understanding is that the custom Sony part is the DSD DAC and that the 1796 would be there for CD playback, if that makes sense?

[Eric5676]

Is it really worthwhile to spend $2.5-3k on a tube output stage with 6SN7s? For that kind of money I was expecting DHTs at least.

I can't answer that directly although I can say Dan and Modwright have a stirling, non snake-oilish reputation.

The easiest way to get down to it would be to go ahead and register at that forum I linked you to. It's free and it's a pretty darned good audiophile forum. From there, you can pretty much look through that entire thread, which includes pictures, and fire off any question to Dan directly right there on the boards.

You'll see in that 5400 thread that it gets partially sidetracked with Oppo BDP83 talk. Dan's going to be doing some nifty mods for that unit as well.

[Azazel]

Do you have pictures (preferably big ones)?

After the look inside (one must remove one of the boards to see the analog out one) I closed, installed on the rack [and let burn-in to see the sound out if it.

Then I realised I have not taken any pics

I deserve punishment and banning, I know

Btw (Hop) the one and only DAC here is this 1796 chip. It does everything (stereo).

I took the 5400ES receiver too, it activates the "HATS" thing with the player (the Sony way to sync transport to minimize jitter, or so they say).

Now, let's burn them a bit (with over 30 Celsius here now they WILL burn).

Sorry about the pics...

Josep

[Dreadhead]

My understanding is that the custom Sony part is the DSD DAC and that the 1796 would be there for CD playback, if that makes sense?

I think they may all be custom actually but I don't know for sure.

edit: wrong!!!!

[Azazel]

"The" custom part is a new Sony HDMI controller, on the digital board, able to do the HATS thing (6 channel of clock sync audio, if the receiver has the equivalent one and is soft activated).

The one and only DAC inside this player is the BB/TI part.

[Dreadhead]

Awesome.... so much for 25 million developing anything....

Still sounds good though.

[deepak]

I deserve punishment and banning, I know

Careful what you wish for 'round here

[Hopstretch]

Azazel, I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect in this case. The 1796 is, I believe, employed only in the transmission of DSD over HDMI. When the player's analog outputs are used, the converters are Sony's own SA-DAC chips, according to some product literature I was able to dig up.

Some fortunate owners will use the SCD-XA5400ES connected via HDMI digital interface to the Sony STR-DA6400ES, in which case the player's internal D/A converters will go unused. However, in the absence of an amplifier or receiver equipped with a HDMI interface, owners will be using the analog outputs of the SCD-XA5400ES, in which case the player's on-board D/A converters will exert a pivotal influence on sound quality.

Multi channel Super Audio CDs present the player with six separate channels

[Dreadhead]

Hopstretch, thanks for the white paper. Very interesting. I'm not sure I buy the superiority of the multi-level but it looks like you end up with about 6 bits running at very high speeds. Essentially a hybrid between a classic multi-bit and the delta-sigma/DSD dacs. The use of bits at random is similar to what dCS does with the ring dac too.

Certainly isn't "pure DSD" though. Hmmmm I may need to buy one of these.

[aardvark baguette]

dew eet

[Azazel]

Well, after reading the paper, I am sorry to say... I was RIGHT. And this "paper" is full of nonsense. I cannot believe what I read. Where it comes from? Sony marketing maybe?

Hopstrecth I am not aying anything about you, don't get me wrong, in fact I am grateful you let us examine this. Let's see.

First and foremost: this player does NOT have any multichannel analog outs. Only stereo, both on RCA and XLR. So inside there is NOT any multichannel DAC. More on this later.

Now on this document.

The paper explains firstly the most important thing inside is the Sony HDMI controler/transmitter chip.

As I said.

Because it is able to send 6 channel of DSD audio with low jitter. On page 7 you can see the diagram: there is no DAC inside the player for more than 2-channel use.

Nice.

Now for funny things: on page 9, you can see the pic of the DSD1796. Someone put it there wrongly. Yes. Just look for DSD1796 pdf's around and see what it is: just a stereo DAC (hi-per one btw). It is not any DSD decoder LSI (!).

Then after much marketing blurb (describing play operation and the Texas Instruments-made DAC...) in page 22 we see the analog board I saw this morning.

So no more need for my pic, here she is.

Now the paper says " Sony has made extensive use of surface-mount parts and leadless resistors" but we all can see no less than 42 lead-resistors. Oh well.

Now to page 24, same board with balanced part highligthed. Inside red marks are the two 2114 crappy opamps I described. The other three (middle) are nicer OPA2132. I am sure now this balanced outs are 'fake' if you understand me.

Towards the end, on 'features', they claim surprisingly "12 Super Audio Digital-to-Analog converters". I have still to see them... are they inside the HDMI large chip, and then there is conversion to digital for HDMI transmission?

Again: this is a STEREO player with multichannel capacity over an external decoder.

Sorry for being rude, it is far from my style, but I have never saw so much wrong things said, and actually some LIES (let's just say "errors"), on a paper like this. Not even in audio press.

Hey, the thing plays smooth music anyway as I am discovering now...