Gilmore Reference Balanced?

[spritzer]

Many SS and some tube amps need that warm-up time to sound right. I suppose you can leave it always on to avoid the waiting time. Regarding power... yep, it's always welcome, but not at the expense of anything else. I mean that an excess of power cannot fix other flaws in an amp.

Every piece of kit I've ever owned benefited from warming up and some I've always used 24/7 such as DAC's and the like. The difference on my old BH was quite startling between 10 minutes and three hours...

More power can indeed be very bad news, large and nasty power transistors and pentodes come to mind, but that's not nearly always the case. You can have a great sounding SS amp with high power but that takes a lot of heat to be dissipated with all the trouble associated with that. Same goes for tube gear, loaded with 845's but a 6SN7 driving them...

[Torpedo]

I find the Balanced Max to be very neutral-transparent. I've heard it several times under meet conditions, and once in a more dedicated listening session. The current one with the diamond buffer was special, so if you search used, make sure you know which version you're looking at.

Thanks for sharing. When purchasing gear that I don't know at all just for the sake of learning about its sound, especially if it's expensive, I try to buy used or ex-demo. In the Balanced Max's case I don't think it's easy finding one used. I'll keep in mind the diamond buffer thing.

Every piece of kit I've ever owned benefited from warming up and some I've always used 24/7 such as DAC's and the like. The difference on my old BH was quite startling between 10 minutes and three hours...

Hehehe, I leave my transport and DAC on 24/7. They only get rest when I travel away for more than a couple of days. Despite that, the damn DAC always needs about 20-30 minutes of music playing to sound as it should. On my secondary speakers rig I leave the YBA integrated on all the time, it needs more than an hour of warm up to get "texture".

I received a reply from the current GR's owner. I think we could work out a deal. He confirmed the unit is factory set for 230VAC. We'll see. My "almost-friend" who was the former owner didn't reply, he's most likely is away on holidays.

Rgrds

[spritzer]

Hehehe, I leave my transport and DAC on 24/7. They only get rest when I travel away for more than a couple of days. Despite that, the damn DAC always needs about 20-30 minutes of music playing to sound as it should. On my secondary speakers rig I leave the YBA integrated on all the time, it needs more than an hour of warm up to get "texture".

The only SS gear I have right now is the AudioZone dac and it doesn't even have a power switch so it's on 24/7. I do leave one of my T1 amps on all the time over weekends and such when I'm working on some headphones or something like that. Those 6CG7's are cheap as dirt so who cares if they die early...

[philodox]

My amp definately sounds a lot better after it has had time to properly warm up... or maybe it's my CD player... or my headphones... or all three.

[spritzer]

My amp definately sounds a lot better after it has had time to properly warm up... or maybe it's my CD player... or my headphones... or all three.

Headphones?? I do notice a nice warmup effect in my RCA connectors but it is strangely absent in XLR's.

[Fungi]

Or maybe it's all in your head!

[spritzer]

Or maybe it's all in your head!

I never rule that out...

[Torpedo]

Same here, but if it were just my head, why do I feel different components have different warm-up times to reach their nice working point? My subconsciousness can't be that smart

[Torpedo]

your answer is right there.

hehehehe, who knows, I wish I were able to measure some things. The fact is that I have some components, even tube ones, that I don't find significant changes and sound good right switched on. Others take a lot to sound right, and I mean more than 1 hour from a cold state... If it's my subconsciousness, she's really creative

[philodox]

Headphones?? I do notice a nice warmup effect in my RCA connectors but it is strangely absent in XLR's.

I was just listing everything in my setup as there is really no way to know what component is warming up if you are using them all together. Let me know the next time you listen to your headphone amp without a pair of headphones and a source.

Since my K340's have electrets it is minutely plausible though I would personally expect the source and amp to be the components warming up. Hey, at least I left my IC's and power cables out of it.

[Torpedo]

the subconscious is highly influenced by the conscious. that you say it must be creative in order to come to these conclusions makes it so.

LOL I know... these things happen when you can't get scientific evidence, nor being sure you're measuring right the right things. Fortunately for some of my gear, the speakers amp, I know that it doesn't measure the same right powered on than after 10 minutes or other 10 minutes later. But that's the only device I know really changes during warm-up. However my subjective perception of needed warm up is longer than the time it needs to measure steady. We humans are strange creatures

[Dusty Chalk]

I think my subconscious is high on crack.

[spritzer]

I was just listing everything in my setup as there is really no way to know what component is warming up if you are using them all together. Let me know the next time you listen to your headphone amp without a pair of headphones and a source.

Since my K340's have electrets it is minutely plausible though I would personally expect the source and amp to be the components warming up. Hey, at least I left my IC's and power cables out of it.

It wasn't really a stab at you but vcoheda on HF but it is easy enough to check when you have more then one identical amp and headphone sets... like I do. One should look at this logically and see where things might actually change their temperature with use and headphones dissipate a minute amount of heat with use. You might get something extra from the transformers in the K340 but it should be minor compared to the changes that occur in the amp. Ever tried to bias a cold tube amp?

[Edwood]

LOL, I should dust off my box o parts and put together my Balanced Gilmore Dynalo (Dynamid). PSU is the real wild card, as I'm using a modified Dynahi PSU for it.

-Ed

[n_maher]

LOL, I should dust off my box o parts and put together my Balanced Gilmore Dynalo (Dynamid). PSU is the real wild card, as I'm using a modified Dynahi PSU for it.

-Ed

The sigma22 might make a much more stable PS platform, Ed.

[Edwood]

The sigma22 might make a much more stable PS platform, Ed.

Probably, but then I'd have to buy more parts, yadda yadda yadda.

I already populated half the Dynahi PSU board.

[postjack]

It wasn't really a stab at you but vcoheda on HF but it is easy enough to check when you have more then one identical amp and headphone sets... like I do. One should look at this logically and see where things might actually change their temperature with use and headphones dissipate a minute amount of heat with use. You might get something extra from the transformers in the K340 but it should be minor compared to the changes that occur in the amp. Ever tried to bias a cold tube amp?

Yes, but your testing method assumes that what makes gear "warm up" is actually heat, as opposed to something else, like music loving microscopic bugs who are attracted to pleasing vibrations and slowly build up around your gear as it runs.

[Knuckledragger]

Yes, but your testing method assumes that what makes gear "warm up" is actually heat, as opposed to something else, like music loving microscopic bugs who are attracted to pleasing vibrations and slowly build up around your gear as it runs.

"This KGBSE's Midi-Chlorian count is off the chart!"

I'll get my coat.

[spritzer]

Yes, but your testing method assumes that what makes gear "warm up" is actually heat, as opposed to something else, like music loving microscopic bugs who are attracted to pleasing vibrations and slowly build up around your gear as it runs.

You might be onto something here. Maybe we have been lied to all this time and heat isn't thermal radiation... This new discovery will completely alter how I run my bakery from now on.

[Dusty Chalk]

Maybe they're fire elementals. (cf. Berserk, book #24)

[Torpedo]

Well, the seller took his time to sort out everything, but we've finally closed a deal and I've just ordered payment for that Gilmore Reference Balanced. Hopefully I'll have it here by next Wednesday or Thursday. We'll see how I like it

[slwiser]

Congrats! Enjoy it..

[Torpedo]

Congrats! Enjoy it..

Thanks mate!

The amp arrived about two hours ago. I've plugged it into the system replacing the Rudi, fed it with a balanced signal from my DAC and for first listening I've chosen the L3000. Music: Kenny Barron - Live at Bradley's.

Initial impressions are very good. I was expecting kind of more "trendy" sound full of enhanced detail, transparency "uber alles", some agressive attacks, shortened decays and those SS harmonics which aren't very full and natural... the kind of attributes that lead some people to say that some piece of kit is not "musical". Nothing of all that has happened, if anything, attacks are in the punchy side of things, but probably just when the playing is that way.

Of course I have to listen to really "audio evaluation suitable" music, and trying the rest of the cans, we'll see how it does with more resolving phones. As for now I'm quite pleased with the purchase so far, this amp shows some potential and intersting features.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this purchase Not sure if my "final" amp yet, though an interesting one to own and evaluate.

Rgrds

[Torpedo]

I've tried to edit the post to add a question for Justin, but looks like it's not possible, or I'm too idiot to see how to do it Anyway...

Since the amp is balanced and has two single ended HP outs, I wonder if both SE outs come from the same rail of each channel, which I suppose is the "hot" one, or one SE out is using the amplification for the hot side of the balanced circuit, while the other SE out uses the cold one. If this were the case, what SE out is using the hot (preserved polarity) part of the circuit and which one is the reversed?

I could investigate this myself quite easily had I an oscilloscope, but I don't have it, nor a reliable meter to check polarity either.

My guess is that both SE outs use the same perserved polarity circuit, othewise when using the SE input only one of the SE outs would be working, unless some phase inversion circuit gets activated when switching to SE operation in the back, so both balanced rails get signal.

Rgrds

PS. Looks like the "edit" button is active right after the message is posted, but I swear it wasn't (and still isn't) there when I tried to edit my previous message.

Edited September 10, 2008 by Torpedo
Adding PS

[n_maher]

I think you get around 5 minutes to edit a post, otherwise it's permanent.

About the SE outputs, I wouldn't much worry about absolute phase. There's nothing to say that other components in your change aren't already inverting it without your knowledge.