RS1's?

[CD44hi]

I'm probably not going to try and find a vintage pair. They are either way over priced or gone in minutes. I also don't want to risk a short in the Y connector. I've had three pairs of grado's and friends that have had 2 pair. Out of those 5, 2 of the Y connectors have had a short in them. Thems ain't good odds. It's good to know that you didn't notice that great of a difference between the old and new Rs1's. I don't have great ears so I'm sure that I wouldn't notice much of a difference either.

-The short in the cable is an easy fix. Just cable replacement. THe real pain would be if the drivers go bad, because as far as I know that is what gives them that vintage sound flavor.

-**When I say no difference in sound between RS1s is *only* referring to the NEWER RS1 (I would say 2000-on) with buttons and the newer iteration w/o buttons. In other words, I was just talking about the newer button-less vs the previous iteration with buttons. I do hear a difference between the older brown leather band compared to either one: buttons or no buttons. Just to be clear

[Chekhonte]

oh crud, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe I'll try and hold out for a pair of vintage ones. I may try my luck with a WTB here and at the other place and see if I can land a decent deal on them. My luck has been running high the past couple of days so let's see if it holds out.

[Chekhonte]

one last question, if I'm going to buy a pair of vintage RS1's, how do I identify a vintage pair? Are they with out serial numbers or am I looking for a pair below a certain serial?

[CD44hi]

No serial numbers. Real vintage ones came in wooden boxes, had brown leather headbands and golden letters

[Chekhonte]

yes, it's the brow headband that I forgot about. christ, this isn't going to be cheap.

[henmyr]

So, you do not know if you like the RS1, but you're already thinking about getting the supposed to be (I've not heard the vintage) top of the line RS1? Doesn't they sell for over $1k, which is double that of a used "new" pair.

To the people who have heard and compared both vintage and newer RS1:

a. Are the differences so large that a person could like the vintage RS1, while at the same time not like the new RS1?

b. Or is the vintage RS1 still an RS1, while slightly better than new version.

If case a. is true, it does make sense to go for the vintage unheard, but if case b. is true, it might be better to just get a used pair new RS1 first to hear if they are at all likeable.

-----------------------------------------

I did have the MS2i, but sold them shortly after I got the RS1 (new buttonless). I really did like the MS2i, but the effortless and refined sound of the RS1 won. I do not find the RS1 to have that much more treble than what the MS2i did, I still find them (RS1) smooth like the MS2i. I might even say that the MS2i is more aggressive than RS1, and spoon-feeds you the sound, while RS1 plays it effortless.

I do think I like the more neutral soundsignature of the MS2i better than the RS1, but there is no question that the RS1 is in a higher tier. The soundstage is bigger, air between instruments is better and more deep bass (impression without real comparison).

I use bowls mostly. Flats seem to make them even smoother and more laid back.

[Chekhonte]

Thanks for sharing your experience. It would seem that most people that have owned the ms2i and the rs1 feel that the rs1 is more enjoyable to listen to. I think I'm going to try and pick a pair up if I see a used pair.

Do the vintage RS1's really go for around a grand these days?! I thought that they were only aruond 100 dollars more than an average used pair. I'll probably just go for a black leather headband vintage pair if that's the case.

[grawk]

I regret selling my unserialed black leather band'd RS1s. But only a little. I don't regret selling my HP1s.

[en480c4]

If it makes any difference, I adore the vintage RS-1s (brown headband, no SN, gold lettering) and absolutely hate the later RS-1s with the button, flats or bowls. Unlistenable in any setup I've tried, from my mid-fi (at best) to the best setup at any given meet. Why do I say this? Because I was very, very pleasantly surprised by the latest button-less incarnation of the RS-1. Haj brought his (now gone) pair over to my place for a mini-meet with Nate and Dave and I spent quite a bit of time with them. They sounded great with bowls and flats with Haj's Beta, my Millett Hybrid and even my PPA v2. They were definitely brighter than my woodied HF-1s, but not uncomfortably so. They had great detail, with better bass speed, but I preferred the warmer presentation, fuller midrage and better bass impact of my HF-1 at the expense of some of the detail and technical ability shown in the RS-1. And while the latest RS-1 doesn't seem to have the magic of the vintage pairs I've heard, they're far closer to that sound than that of the later buttoned ones.

[jp11801]

There are at probably /34 versions of the rs1 over time and maybe more. So far I have heard at least three of them. The brown leather headband absolutely has different drivers than the black leather headband/no serial # as we put that to the test at yesterdays meet. The brown pair was more refined with better seperation, the black pair was still great but was not as refined. The brown leather had drivers/screens with a redish hue to them while the black had drivers with a black driver/screen. Both of these are better than the new version by a wide margin and I think there was a change during the serial # black version as well.

In gemeral the older the rs1 typically the better the sound as the drivers seem to have benn copromised over time. So if a new pair was $650 and an older pair black no serial # was $650 on the used market it would be a no brainer to get the older pair. THey are better looking and more importatnly sounding. Yes the brown leather is expensive but I now regreat selling my pair as the ones I have are great but the others are a notch better.

[aardvark baguette]

Thanks for posting your test results jp.

[Torpedo]

Could it be possible that the old RS-1 used the same Joe Grado's family of drivers as used in the HP-1000?

Rgrds

[Chekhonte]

That's it, I'm downgrading to 2 tin cans attached with string.

[jp11801]

from a visual inspection as well as comparisons to HP2s they do not share the same drivers. They are different and to my ears may have an advantage. I know Ken will disagree as he sees the rs1s as having too hot a top end but I love the mids of these and the better extension both top and bottom over the hp2. They are a more enjoyable headphone to me, the older version that is.

I would love to get a panel of 4 or so people and do a comprehensive RS1 breakdown as it is still fairly misunderstood how these headphones have devolved over time.

[Fungi]

Just go to Grado labs, tie up everyone including Mr. Grado himself, and torture them until they fess up to the changes in the Grado headphones.

[foo_me]

echo John's comparison of the older vs old RS1s that we made during the norcal mini meet.

I used to own a recent pair of RS1s and liked it.

It wasn't unlistenable at all, but it did tend to get a little harsh at the high end and was ready to sell.

When listening to a vintage pair, i don't think there's any comparison between the two.

Fuller sound, sweeter midrange, and smoother...and i don't think it's that subtle either.

I thought there was a very balanced presentation from low to mid to high...while still having that in your face sound that's great for rock.

If i were in the market for RS1s, I'd go older as much as much possible.

[deepak]

Given Grado's poor quality control I wouldn't be surprised if there is significant variation in sound amongst various RS-1s.

[guzziguy]

from a visual inspection as well as comparisons to HP2s they do not share the same drivers. They are different and to my ears may have an advantage. I know Ken will disagree as he sees the rs1s as having too hot a top end but I love the mids of these and the better extension both top and bottom over the hp2. They are a more enjoyable headphone to me, the older version that is.

Thank goodness for our different tastes here or you never would have sold me your HP2s.

[Torpedo]

maybe it's not so much poor quality control, but worker variation. perhaps John grabs people off the street, forces them to assemble a headphone or two, and kicks them out. then he would grab another person off the street, and so on. given pictures of some of the phones i've seen, i wouldn't doubt that they were assembled by some random joe or bob.

LOL

I don't know how old RS-1 sound, all I've listened were of the black headband type with buttons and serial number. For your description of the vintage models, I think they could sound closer to the HP-2 than the RS-1 I know, which btw, aren't my cup of tea. Maybe fun with some music for a while, but rather unlistenable for any acoustic music, specially if horns are involved.

Rgrds

[jp11801]

grado QC was not as much of an issue in the past and generally seems to be something that has cropped up in the past 2-3 years. This could not be related to QC as the drivers are obviously different. I would not be surprised if grados went through multiple iterations of drivers over the years while keeping the model numbers the same.

One thing to recall is Grado was almost out of business at one point due to declining sales under Joe and John did alot to resurrect the brand. So IMHO Joe was a much better headphone designer and John was a much better marketing and manager person.

[Icarium]

Yeah I think foo_me's pair of Grados are probably the best Grados I've ever heard. They are nicely detailed with just a solid musical sound and an impressively wide (for a Grado) soundstage. That was a first for me. The price though and the upfrontness of the sound (Literally at face level) is a deal breaker for me though. Even when I like the "at the foot of the stage" sound (Rock) it is kind of weird hearing the drums right there too.

[Torpedo]

the vintage RS-1s don't sound anything like the HP-2s.

not a very common opinion, regarding the HP-2s. what gear and pads did you use with them?

My probably erroneous inference about the vintage RS-1 sounding closer to the HP-2 was just a wild guess since I've never listened to any vintage RS-1.

My comment was referred to the RS-1 with buttons and black headband, the only model I've listened to, not to the HP-2. I'm using these with flats, I didn't like the sound with bowls, kind of a hole in the midrange using them. With flats I find them surprisingly neutral for Grado phones, quite warm, almost relaxed and kind of less resolutive, but still very "pratty" carrying a good deal of the fun factor of other Grado models. I like these cans, they lack the airiness that suits classical music and are too in front sounding, but I could live with them as my only phones without much trouble.

Rgrds

[Torpedo]

i think i was confused on your post due to its sentence structure. were were saying that the RS-1s are the phones that aren't suited to acoustic, especially with horns?

I'm sorry, it's probably my less than perfect English. Yes, I was trying to mean that while I find the RS-1 just OK for some music, I didn't like at all their way of reproducing acoustic instruments, especially the horns mostly saxophones. I suppose that the same character that makes electric guitars sound so "crunchy" on them, spoils other instruments for my taste.

Rgrds

[elnero]

One thing to recall is Grado was almost out of business at one point due to declining sales under Joe and John did alot to resurrect the brand. So IMHO Joe was a much better headphone designer and John was a much better marketing and manager person.

In the past Grado's bread and butter was in carts so I tend to think their declining sales was mostly due to the emergence of digital and declining turntable sales.

[CD44hi]

Comparing the selling prices for the Grado HP-X vs Graso SR/RS series, it is easy to imagine that the [margin of earnings/production costs] ratio is much greater with the current line. I think even taking into account inflation, the Joe grado cans were over-engineered for the task thus reducing the profit margin. This of course is in my humble speculating opinion, as I have no hard facts to substantiate any claims