RSA B52 or Single Power ES1?

[shinichi]

I think it may be a weird question. But I am thinking about going for either a high end dynamic setup with RSA B52(with grado PS1) or a high end electrostatic setup with single power ES1 (with stax Omega).

Having no experience about them. I wonder whether it is worth at investing on the single power ES1 or RSA B52.

if you agree with ES1, how much do you think i should invest on it?

My only taste is that super big soundstage and real sound

thanks

[PFKMan23]

I'd get a TTVJ 307a if you can swing it. That's probably the only high end amp that I could see getting within a reasonable timeframe nowadays. I personally have no interested in the headroom stuff or else that might be a good alternative as well.

[PFKMan23]

the upcoming Eddie Current balanced amp would be worth a look. is Justin still taking orders for BHSEs?

I don't think Justin is taking anymore orders for the BHSE and heh, god knows when you'll get it. The EC amp should be pretty interesting as it's also a 307a amp. It should be fun to see those compared someday.

[spritzer]

Neither would be my vote. If you want a huge soundstage get a Stax SR-Sigma and either a transformer to drive them off a normal power amp or some electrostatic amp. You could for instance bug EC to make one for you. The soundstage on the Omega line is small yet precise so not what you are looking for but the Sigma was built for soundstage.

[shinichi]

if waiting time is no object(assuming that we can get it right now) , then which amp will you guy want to own the most?

I have just looked at the TTVJ 307a and noticed that it didn't have a seperated power supply like other high end amplifier. Is it still good?

[n_maher]

if waiting time is no object(assuming that we can get it right now) , then which amp will you guy want to own the most?

Neither.

I have just looked at the TTVJ 307a and noticed that it didn't have a seperated power supply like other high end amplifier. Is it still good?

[spritzer]

A separate PSU isn't always a good thing and can even cause more trouble then it "fixes".

[shinichi]

i would suggest doing a search on this forum, if you want to know whether people consider the TTVJ 307A to be high end, or not.

determining whether something is high end or not based on whether it has an external PSU is silly.

now i know something new :p:p

[aerius]

A separate PSU isn't always a good thing and can even cause more trouble then it "fixes".

Yup, you get more room for better parts and layout, and get the transformer far away so it doesn't make things hum. On the downside it brings up issues with grounding and noise pickup which aren't trivial to solve, and which frankly few audio designers know how to solve.

[luvdunhill]

Yup, you get more room for better parts and layout, and get the transformer far away so it doesn't make things hum. On the downside it brings up issues with grounding and noise pickup which aren't trivial to solve, and which frankly few audio designers know how to solve.

also, more capacitance is needed on the output of the supply and the effects of this on output impedance. It's an interesting trade-off, I agree, and one I'm wrestling with for my preamp.

[4N6]

I'd get a TTVJ 307a if you can swing it. That's probably the only high end amp that I could see getting within a reasonable timeframe nowadays.

100% agree. I have had the B-52 and just recently sold it as the 307A is better and more flexible (any and all dynamic headphones are supported). It is "only" $650 more expensive but ultimately I think you would enjoy it more. It is also available rather quickly, and comes with the impecable customer service of TTVJ. See my comparisons in this and "the other" headphone site.

Now, if you need the headphone amp to pull double-duty as a stereo preamplifier, then I would go for the Cary SLP-05. Built-in dedicated single-ended headphone amp using 6SN7 tubes. Sounds great and is a little better preamp than the B-52. However, it can't do balanced headphones, and if that is your fancy, then the B-52 will be a close 2nd.

And no, a separate power supply, in and of itself, means nothing as to the sound quality.

[bhd812]

Two completely different worlds, same universe though.

You have to think if you want a dynamic verus Electro and how important are preamp functions to you.

I am not a believer in balanced headphones means better, but when it comes to speakers setups with longer cable runs and more cable runs i choose balanced over single ended if i could.

Also Just because a product sounds great in headphone area does not mean it will sound great in Preamp, whats more important to you?

Also this forum is largely Anti-RSA so asking for any thoughts on any Ray Samuels Product is going to get you lot's of one sided opinions, esp having people who owned or demo'd a b52 for a good amount of time (not at a meet).

4n6 seems to be the only person that has had enough time with the B52 and the 307a for a real educated opinion from personal experience of the product on these boards. him and I are are the only b52 owners i know on this forum.

might wanna ask on headfi cause there is probably more b52 owners there...

[Dusty Chalk]

I agree with everything that's been said above: neither; TTVJ 307a or Headamp something (too bad if the BHSE is finished with taking orders, I just heard it for the first time today, and he has really outdone himself); and still neither.

Also, I know nothing of headphone soundstage.

[4N6]

I agree with everything that's been said above: neither; TTVJ 307a or Headamp something (too bad if the BHSE is finished with taking orders, I just heard it for the first time today, and he has really outdone himself); and still neither.

Also, I know nothing of headphone soundstage.

[4N6]

And BTW...the 307A with the K1000's is just KILLER!!!!!

[Dusty Chalk]

if waiting time is no object(assuming that we can get it right now) , then which amp will you guy want to own the most?

That was the still neither, and the others were alternatives.

Or was your ? re: not knowing anything about headphone soundstage?

[shinichi]

maybe this question is kind of newbie.

why do we still need preamp for speaker when we already have amplifier option for it?

thanks

[spritzer]

can you please rephrase that?

Ditto...

[luvdunhill]

maybe this question is kind of newbie.

why do we still need preamp for speaker when we already have amplifier option for it?

thanks

speakers != headphones

[aerius]

maybe this question is kind of newbie.

why do we still need preamp for speaker when we already have amplifier option for it?

Because without a preamp you have exactly two volume settings; off, and postjack.

[4N6]

Shinichi, I hope this helps answer your question.

Preamplifier = control of loudness, selection of sources

Amplifier = powering speakers or headphones

Both of the above are needed to play recorded music.

Integrated amplifier = a single unit to power speakers that contains both the preamp and amp circuitry

Headphone amplifier = a single unit to power headphones that contains both the preamp and amp circuitry. It usually does not have enough output to power speakers (Woo Audio 5 and Cary SLI-80 are exceptions, and may be better considered Integrated amps that ALSO power headphones).

The RSA B-52 may be used as a headphone amp and as a preamp. So may a few other brands, such as most Headroom amps.

The TTVJ 307A is JUST a headphone amp. It cannot perform the duties of a preamp as it does not have the outputs to drive a speaker amp.

An electrostatic headphone amp cannot be used as a preamp due to its topology.

[luvdunhill]

uh, headphone amps are basically just preamps, you know. i'm reasonably sure that i've seen 'stat amps that had pre-outs, but i may be mistaken. the TTVJ definitely can act as a preamp, one simply needs the right adapters.

preamp for ESLs maybe

[morphsci]

An electrostatic headphone amp cannot be used as a preamp due to its topology.

Now you tell me ... There is nothing inherent in the "topology" of an electrostatic amp that prevents its use as a preamp. I can certainly hook the preamp outputs of my ES-1 to the analog inputs of my TACT s2150 to route music sources to and control their volume through my speakers.

@shinichi - My suggestion is to first decide what phones you like and then find sources and amps that complement and synergize with those phones. Comparing a dynamic amp to an electrostatic amp is like comparing elephants to gazelles as dynamics will give you a different presentation of the music compared to electrostatics (some will be closer and others farther apart obviously). The only real way to tell is by listening yourself and making that decision. In the end you may want both electrostats and dynamics

[spritzer]

Now you tell me ... There is nothing inherent in the "topology" of an electrostatic amp that prevents its use as a preamp. I can certainly hook the preamp outputs of my ES-1 to the analog inputs of my TACT s2150 to route music sources to and control their volume through my speakers.

It works as a passive preamp but I doubt many amps would appreciate the high voltage output...

[kevin gilmore]

Because without a preamp you have exactly two volume settings; off, and postjack.

Isn't that

off, and Ray Samuels