Off topic SinglePower discussion, immtbiker/Dusty posts, etc

[Dusty Chalk]

Fine, wish I could say the same.

[jp11801]

Thanks, Mom, I'll keep that in mind. It'd be nice to know that everyone else at the meet was an adult as well, though.

For the record, there's very little cyber-bullying at this site -- you may want to spin this as me vs. Aaron if you like, but I just get very sensitive about that sort of thing, so speak up about that particular offense a little more quickly than the other mods. He's one of the few offenders that I can recall that I've had to say anything to.

Glad you're not going to be there, asshole. <-- see, smiley makes it all better, I just joking.

Dusty it is a shame how sensitive you are to the topic, not trying to 'spin' this as an Aaron vs you thing this is what I have observed. You have a habit of jumping on Aaron if given the opportunity. If you see it different more in the context of the cyber bullying when Tom just held a birthday party for Aaron and they have been friends for years whatever, but in this case your wrong. I know you are not one to like to admit error. Just ask around if you think I'm wrong on that one.

As for the meet I'd love to have met you as I find people are invariably different in person than they are on the web.

[CD44hi]

Dusty, nice try, but I expect you to show up with some gear. Not just with your CD carrying case this time <-------------

[tyrion]

Jp, I hope to see you there, your plans change.

[Upstateguy]

LOL

[Dusty Chalk]

As for the meet I'd love to have met you as I find people are invariably different in person than they are on the web.

Ain't that the truth -- I fully expect to get along just fine with Aaron. He likes to push my buttons (the arm-wrestling post) -- I react accordingly, what do you expect?

Alright, for the record -- Aaron, you are still warmly welcome to the meet, I look forward to seeing you.

There, all good?

Not promising I won't continue to give him crap, though. That's just the way I am with people like him (and Dan, just so you don't feel like I'm singling him out).

Also not promising that I won't continue to try to prevent any cyber-bullying by nipping it in the bud. I would hate to see it escalate to an actual altercation. I consider it part of my job as a moderator.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Dusty Chalk

[jp11801]

cool I hope you guys have a great time at the meet it should be an epic one given the folks traveling in and the locals.

[tyrion]

Also not promising that I won't continue to try to prevent any cyber-bullying by nipping it in the bud. I would hate to see it escalate to an actual altercation. I consider it part of my job as a moderator.

I hope this isn't true. I was hoping to open a can of whoop ass Stevieo at the meet.

[jp11801]

I hope this isn't true. I was hoping to open a can of whoop ass Stevieo at the meet.

why am I flashing back to CanJam, Voltron just about to crush Stevieo for keeping him up all night, then threatening to toss him off the balcony if he was not quiet. Thankfully our favorite curmudgeon was not killed in the incident and all was well come morning.

there was never remotely close to the possibilty of a physical altercation between Tom and Aaron unless you include Tom hugging Aaron to death.

[catscratch]

This really confuses me. When inane posts (perceived differently by any given reader) are cleaned up and mods step in to control the quality of posts, or kick out idiots (again, alledged differently by each reader) we are called the Nazi Police, or are blamed for "over-moderation". Everyone needs different things from a forum and sometimes, no matter what direction moderation goes in, it can be considered poor management by anyone at any given time. Moderators can only try to do what they think are right and aren't going to please everyone, all of the time. And consistency, can be tough. Hell, even our government and major corporations that have been around 50+ years, still can't get it perfect.

I think Icarium summed it up way better than I could have done it myself. Again, I'm not pointing fingers, and I have nothing but respect for you personally; I'm simply saying that this is how I would have preferred things to go down, and I think that the current situation would have been avoided if this is indeed how things would have been done.

Would the mods have taken a gigantic quantity of flak from the mainstream community? Yes and then some. The bitching would have been so loud you wouldn't have heard people shill their Rudistors and Ultrasones. But in the long term, I think it would have been worth it. I've seen examples of communities moderated that way, and while they are invariably harsh on the newbie that doesn't make the necessary effort to adapt to the forum etiquette, they have always maintained a consistent quality of posts despite their growing popularity.

To quote Conan the Barbarian: "Success will test one's mettle as well as the strongest adversary."

[immtbiker]

He likes to push my buttons (the arm-wrestling post) -- I react accordingly, what do you expect?

...Also not promising that I won't continue to try to prevent any cyber-bullying by nipping it in the bud. I would hate to see it escalate to an actual altercation. I consider it part of my job as a moderator

That was actually a light hearted joke with me holding out an olive branch to you, Peter (now, I know you are going to say that I am back-peddling, but it was truly my intention). Life is too short to hold a grudge on me for one event after all the good that I've tried to do for our community.

Boy, one cyber-bullying event to my credit and I am marked for life.

ohm...shanty town...ohm...shanty town. I come in peace and long for good tune-age.

[PFKMan23]

To kind of add onto what was said in the above, one of the problems that i see with Head Fi is at times there isn't even an attempt to be consistent. And yes, part of having a good long lasting forum is attempting to keep around regs who hopefully truly do have knowledge and experience, rather than some "experience" garnished from knee jerk level impressions.

And before you go off on this whole thing about "what do you expect us to do" attitude, you're a moderator. That job is thankless and crappy and oftentimes making the right decision means you're going to catch a lot of shit. And yes, I've been a moderator/admin in the past for a largish forum, so yes I know what I'm talking about. But in the end you still have to make that decision, even though in the short term, you might loose popularity points.

And yes, realize that this forum was created as a reaction to the poor state of head fi, which IMO has degenerated further since the creation of HC.

That said, Head Fi seems to be going in a more positive direction, which is good, but there's still a lot of work to be done, much of which should have been done long ago as there have been issues that have gone from bad to spun out of control.

[immtbiker]

I don't fault anyone for being unhappy about a particular state of affairs, but I do believe that consistency is probably one of the hardest principles to obtain in such a large venue.

I saw that a lot of people were being frustrated and financially damaged by what was going on in the Singlepower and Xin Reference situations and I took action. It appears that it has lit a fire under some people's asses and it has had some positive effects.

When should that action have been taken? That's a tough call. Do I want to ever stand in the way of a member or manufacturer making money and paying off their mortgage? No. However, when I see that there is thousands of dollars being held and poor business practices are being applied which are affecting a lot of people, it made me think that the time was ripe.

There will always be people who will make excuses for the actions of others, some of them being valid, some not, but when I see that no real attempt to remedy the situation was being made, that's when I stepped in. Whether the amps sound like God's gift to the universe or not, customer's need proper communication when a huge amount of their money is being held by one person who is not accountable to a table full of shareholders.

As far as shills and fanboys go, it's tough to prove that anyone has anything to gain financially by pushing someone else's product. Without proof, it can only be speculation. When someone has a sig that calls people cool, and the only common denominator is because they own a Singlepower product, it can be because a person is overly enthusiastic or they can be a shill. Who has a right to make that call. Facts are necessary in making any calls on that subject. And so does any action or reaction.

When I found out that people were being solicited through the PM system, without requesting any info, I contacted those people and told them that the behavior is unacceptable and not fair to other MOT's that are following the guidelines that make it an even game for everyone. If they would have continued, they would have been banned. The cable sector was especially susceptible to this, because a lot of people can make a good cable (except for Nate ). J/K. Nate does it for cost and it is a labor of love, so he is not considered an MOT. He is a man of principle and he practices what he preaches, but unfortunately, not everyone follows his credo.

It's wonderful that members of our 2 communities can make money, or even a living creating, manufacturing and selling products that we include in our hobby. But everyone needs to be fair and a lot of money can be made, and we can be very satiated doing the things that bring us joy outside of the realm of normal everyday necessities.

Keeping on top of the rights and wrongs of these actions can be a full time job, and I think that the mods are doing a pretty good job, with everything considered. Can it be done better? Definitely.

Can it be done worse? More definitely.

By the way, as it has been said by 4 members here, Tom and I are good friends. I can't say "whoop-ass" on Head-Fi, so I enjoyably so say it here.

It did get a little personal with things that were being said about my approach to the 2006 National Meet...I was obviously very vested in the operation and the comments being said. My life was dedicated to the event for 9 months. The naysayers were playing armchair quarterback and when mentions of "cage matches" were brought up, I probably could have handled it better. There, I said it.

However, I am a very mellow guy who wants peace and prosperity in the universe and I ask that my comments made in that instance, not be a summation of the kind of person that I really am.

Other than that, fuck everyone!

[Dusty Chalk]

Boy, one cyber-bullying event to my credit and I am marked for life.

I'm not going to lie and say that I don't remember that one of the few other instances was also you, but I wasn't picking on you -- don't play the martyr. If someone posted child porn, I'd call them out on it every single time, too. It's got nothing to do with the person, it's the act that I was calling you out on. If you feel picked on, then quit being a repeat offender.

Mike -- only if you share. I love those spicy little peanuts.

[immtbiker]

How the hell did you find out about the child porn?

...ooh you mean, hypothetically. Oops.

[immtbiker]

I say, I say, boy...you is as sharp as a bohwlin' ball!

[Dusty Chalk]

That was actually a light hearted joke with me holding out an olive branch to you, Peter (now, I know you are going to say that I am back-peddling, but it was truly my intention).

Wait, let me get this straight. This:

It's cool...I've been doing push-ups all week so that Peter and I can have a arm wrestling contest at the MD meet this weekend and get this over, once and for all!

was an olive branch? An olive branch? How stupid are you? There's "I thought I could get away with spinning it as an olive branch" stupid, then there's, "no, I really thought that could possibly be interpreted in a world other than one of my own imagining by someone other than myself -- a real person -- as to possibly be an olive branch" stupid, then there's "do-de-do, Hey, George, what's an olive branch?" stupid. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm asking a question -- how stupid are you? I mean, you're basically saying that this should be reduced to a test of who's stronger. An olive branch?

<-- smiley face, makes it all better

What's your idea of a pick-up line, "I'll make you my bitch"? Does that work well for you? Ever?

What's your idea of male bonding, "you should buy me a drink"? Political platform: "let's raise taxes to pay for everything"? Anti-drug slogan, "don't, you could like get caught and stuff"?

How the hell did you find out about the child porn?

...ooh you mean, hypothetically. Oops.

That was an analogy. Edited July 28, 2008 by Dusty Chalk

[grawk]

The doing pushups all week line I thought was a pretty funny joke, honestly.

[laxx]

Same.

[Dusty Chalk]

The doing pushups all week line I thought was a pretty funny joke, honestly.

No argument -- you thought it was funny. Still doesn't make it an olive branch. Insults can be funny, too. I thought the "I will make you my bitch" line was funny. Doesn't make what I posted an olive branch, and I won't try to spin it that way.

Oh, and I hope that my completely OTT gloves-off approach is taken with the humor with which it's intended. Aaron posts pictures of Foghorn Leghorn, I post words, that's just one of the differences between us.

And thanks to whomever for splitting this off. Good move.

[aerius]

Good isn't necessarily popular, and popular ain't necessarily good. A lot of the time, doing what is good & right will piss off a lot of people and make you look like an asshole, and too many people just don't have what it takes to do it and live with it. In the end, someone just has to step up and do the right thing even if 90% of the people whine & cry about it, it's really that simple. Not exactly easy, but it's simple.

[recstar24]

Dan, this post is a perfect example, you are always going to find something to complain about no matter what we do. When I say you it isn't the collective you, it was you in particular but there are certainly a number of others like you. It almost seems you do it just to part of the club. As Aaron pointed what is inane to you and 20 or so other members of headcase isn't necessarily inane to those posting and others reading. I hate to say this but if you really can't handle ignoring certain posts and threads on HF, if it's really too difficult for you to sift through, what you consider to be the bs, then why bother going there at all? I'm being serious. I choose what I want to read and what I don't want to read. It really isn't that difficult. Just like I choose to ignore someone like Germania rather than spend my time making fat jokes about her. I'm not a mod there to cater to you or 20 other people that complain. Do you really think it's possible to find every post where someone posted about something they haven't heard and delete them or edit them? Even if we could, I wouldn't. I don't like when people post an opinion on something they haven't heard but what if it was one of the guys that no their shit about the electronics and they point out why it may sound this way or that way. Should I delete those? Perhaps you should write up a legend by which we know what the inane posts are according to icarium. I assure you that you are the last person I'm catering to as a mod over there.

By the way, have you posted a single time in the high end forum? If you did, I couldn't find it. If I'm right, and you don't even try to make it work, why not just stfu about it already?

Also, spare me your sympathy, I don't need it.

Good points. To add further, I believe a lot of us who complain about the signal to noise on HF basically like to come here, bitch and complain, point fingers at mods and jude, and make fat jokes and talk about their mamas. One thing that I guess I am trying to do is raising the signal to noise ratio by contributing more myself. It's hard because you post enough you will get confronted with an idiot but you just keep on grinding away at it. I realized a lot of these newbies have no idea who we are and who the old schoolers are, because we are either here or don't post anymore. Then we complain that "OMG they are so dumb and newbie hahahha so fat", well of course they are, cause we choose to not post anymore. Everytime one of you guys has posted something with some insight or confronted an idiot over there in a rational way, not only has the post been able to stand on its own unmoderated for the most part but I feel there is maybe one newbie or two that has an "ah ha" moment and the light bulb at least starts to flicker.

I guess what it comes down to for me is I am tired of some of the inane posts and lack of quality knowledge on the boards. I feel maybe I can help in ameliorating some of that by contributing in a thoughtful way (not promising anything as I already have had to put some kid on my ignore list, which I have never done before). I don't think though I am ready to write off HF either, nor am I just going to be a casion recluse and moan "OMG harhar HF so dumb yah." Of course if you are here and you are banned, sorry that you don't have that opportunity, FWIW.

BTW - I still appreciate for what headcase is and has to offer. I think if we can get away from the anti HF sentiment and just move forward to establish our own identity separate from making fun of HF, I think this forum can truly be a "hi end" forum which was the reason or what I thought to be the reason that brought me here in the 1st place. For the most part that is true and I have been very happy here with all the discussion about audio gear and especially sonic comparison and impressions.

[JBLoudG20]

BTW - I still appreciate for what headcase is and has to offer. I think if we can get away from the anti HF sentiment and just move forward to establish our own identity separate from making fun of HF, I think this forum can truly be a "hi end" forum which was the reason or what I thought to be the reason that brought me here in the 1st place. For the most part that is true and I have been very happy here with all the discussion about audio gear and especially sonic comparison and impressions.

I really feel that HC is already there, to some extent. Sure we like to poke fun at the idiocy that takes place 'over there', but I think the adjustment has already been made: ask HC if you want GOOD, clean (exclusion of Aerius ) advice. No ulterior motives, little to no misinformed participants, no hogwash. We like to have fun and joke around, but that is a sideeffect of having a small, tightknit community.

[recstar24]

I really feel that HC is already there, to some extent. Sure we like to poke fun at the idiocy that takes place 'over there', but I think the adjustment has already been made: ask HC if you want GOOD, clean (exclusion of Aerius ) advice. No ulterior motives, little to no misinformed participants, no hogwash. We like to have fun and joke around, but that is a sideeffect of having a small, tightknit community.

Oh yes I agree, I just wouldn't say its completely there, but definitely enough there to be enjoyed and respected as an actual hifi forum. Much better than the first days where a lot of emotion was still hot from the whole RSA/ohio/banning reks debacle.

If I had to point out one thing that is most difficult about posting on headfi, it is the inability for some users to accept/take constructive feedback on their post/gear they own, and/or their inability to handle when someone disagrees with them. Even if you carefully pick your words and watch the "tone" of your post, they just go ballistic on you. This kind of behavior is akin to what I have to go through with my middle school kids.

Mr. Clarin: "Johnny, I am sorry, but your project is somewhat off base according to the rubric, the grade will result in a D+, but you did have some strong points."

Johnny: "Waaaahhh I wan mie mummmy yoo hert mi feelyngs yoo ur dahmmy"

(exaggerated for effect)

Please note above post is not just to bitch and complain. I believe it is healthy to occasionally rant in order for others to help me be a better contributor and allow me to better help those that need understanding.

[swt61]

It's cool...I've been doing push-ups all week so that Peter and I can have a arm wrestling contest at the MD meet this weekend and get this over, once and for all!

Pics please!