Ergonomic keyboards and trackballs questions

[Dusty Chalk]

Two separate questions:

What are the best choices for ergonomic keyboards?

What are the best choices for trackballs?

[grawk]

I like my logitech trackman marble that I've had forever, for trackballs.

[guzziguy]

I hate trakballs and use the Microsoft ergonomic keyboard. I'd love to find a cheaper, better alternative to the keyboard.

[blessingx]

I think the Microsoft 4000 is an excellent keyboard for the price. Often on sale for $30. Personally though I've recently moved to an Unicomp Spacesaver buckling-spring keyboard and become a hugh fan, though it's not ergonomic (though keys have some benefits). There's also the Vertical Keyboard worth considering.

I can't take most trackballs, but the Expert Mouse I can use for hours. I really think a trackball needs to be large to be effective. I also use the Vertical Mouse when using a traditional mouse (about 75% of the time). A lot of people at Google use one and when I was there I got addicted. A little more difficult to be exact because of hand position (not mouse read) though.

[Spiug31]

What are the best choices for ergonomic keyboards?

It depends what you are getting it for.

When I was looking a couple of years ago the Maltron Keyboards were the only ones advertised to aid RSI recovery RSI Recovery - The Way Forward

I do find the rotated hand position less stressful and the buttons are much more at my fingertips than my previous qwerty inspired flat keyboards (no more hunt and peck ).

a less expensive way to try this layout is via the money back policy at Ergomatic Keyboard from Ergo-comp

for gaming (if that is your concern) there are gaming pads etc.

I don`t use a trackball so can`t help with that - I use an evoluent mouse on a Razer exactmat instead.

n.b. I`m using OpenBSD with an fvwm desktop, much of what I do is accomplished in xterms without the need for mousing.

[Salt Peanuts]

I like both Logitech Trackman Marble as well as Kensington Expert Mouse. Of the two, I prefer Expert Mouse, but I have fairly large hands so I generally like bigger mouse/trackball better.

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, I think the Logitech is the default Trackball to go to, as the Microsoft is the default Ergonomic keyboard to go to. Is that basically the take to go to?

The advice is actually for someone else who has arthritis at the palm part of their thumb.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Dusty Chalk

[postjack]

Personally though I've recently moved to an Unicomp Spacesaver buckling-spring keyboard and become a hugh fan, though it's not ergonomic (though keys have some benefits).

Wow, this looks great! Does it really have that old keyboard feel to it? Do the keys offer a satisfying resistance? Is the keyboard tough?

[LFF]

I want a keyboard and mouse that are silent. No clicks or noise.

[Salt Peanuts]

I want a keyboard and mouse that are silent. No clicks or noise.

Try looking up Thank Silent Keyboard or Silent mouse - at least I think that was the name of the company.

[LFF]

Try looking up Thank Silent Keyboard or Silent mouse - at least I think that was the name of the company.

EXCELLENT! Just what I need!

[Chekhonte]

dusty, here's the deal with trackballs as mice. Assuming that you're going to use this as your primary pointer navigation device you're going to need one with a scroll wheel and that really reduces your options to the logitech "trackman" and the microsoft trackball which is now out of production but can be had on ebay for usually over a $100. The microsoft trackball is better action to it but for me, isn't worth the extra $75 over the logitech brand.

Another thing is that it takes quite a while to get used to a trackball. It took me a couple of months to actually start to like it. You'll also have a lifetime of complaints from your friends trying to use it and not liking it.

They do build keyboards with trackballs built into the place where a touchpad would be on a laptop. I haven't tried one of these but it might be nice to be to navigate with out taking your hand off of the home row since trackballs can be navigated with your thumb and touchpads can't (at least for me).

[blessingx]

Wow, this looks great! Does it really have that old keyboard feel to it? Do the keys offer a satisfying resistance? Is the keyboard tough?

Yes, it's slightly more plasticy than the old Model Ms, but that's only in comparison, and it definitely has the feel/good resistance and is very tough. I expect it to last a decade. In fact if you want a little closer to the old Model M, their Customizer is the equivalent (same as SpaceSaver but larger in size). They bought the rights from IBM, so this is the closest you're going to get to currently produced keyboards. If you note you're a Mac user when buying they even supply extra keys for you to pop off and replace the Windows keys.

I love mine and would recommend to anyone. Just expect lots of noise.

[grawk]

I still have several of the real ibm keyboards

[Spiug31]

The advice is actually for someone else who has arthritis at the palm part of their thumb.

After reading page 2 of the pdf at Computers and Rheumatoid Arthritis - NRAS it appears there are some specific suggestions

a keyguard - prevents mishitting / multi hitting of keys and lets the hands rest on the keyboard

use more hotkeys for navigation

use of speech recognition software

a wrist-rest positioned prior to the mouse

a rollerball or trackball or touchpad

each of these suggestions are however user specific so they`d still need to figure out for themselves what works best.

beyond this I am aware of some technically fun options such as a devices to track eye or head movement but their novelty tends to bring extra cost.

[blessingx]

dusty, here's the deal with trackballs as mice. Assuming that you're going to use this as your primary pointer navigation device you're going to need one with a scroll wheel and that really reduces your options to the logitech "trackman" and the microsoft trackball which is now out of production but can be had on ebay for usually over a $100. The microsoft trackball is better action to it but for me, isn't worth the extra $75 over the logitech brand.

I definitely agree you need a scroll wheel (or equivalent), which is the same for mice too, but those models aren't the only options. The before mentioned Expert Mouse trackball is but one other with it, and in fact is even better as you're not limited to a single finger scroll (as the scroll wheel surrounds the ball and you can use any finger).

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, I have one from A4 Tech that has a scroll wheel. I forget whether the other one I got has a scroll wheel, but yeah, after going back to my old Logitech one without, yeah, I won't make that mistake again. If I remember not to make that mistake again.

Me, personally, am also paying attention to this thread, as I'm not happy with the A4 Tech trackball for other reasons (it's not optical), but am already used to trackballs, as that's all I've used on my primary computers for the last ump years or so. But I especially appreciate the link to the PDF, and will pass that along to the friend.

[postjack]

...prevents mishitting...

[postjack]

Yes, it's slightly more plasticy than the old Model Ms, but that's only in comparison, and it definitely has the feel/good resistance and is very tough. I expect it to last a decade. In fact if you want a little closer to the old Model M, their Customizer is the equivalent (same as SpaceSaver but larger in size). They bought the rights from IBM, so this is the closest you're going to get to currently produced keyboards. If you note you're a Mac user when buying they even supply extra keys for you to pop off and replace the Windows keys.

I love mine and would recommend to anyone. Just expect lots of noise.

Thanks! I'll either be buying the customizer or the spacesaver for sure.

[Chekhonte]

I definitely agree you need a scroll wheel (or equivalent), which is the same for mice too, but those models aren't the only options. The before mentioned Expert Mouse trackball is but one other with it, and in fact is even better as you're not limited to a single finger scroll (as the scroll wheel surrounds the ball and you can use any finger).

wow, I didn't know that that trackball had a scroll wheel around the actual ball. I kind of want to check it out now.

edit: looking at the cost I don't think I'll be picking it up anytime soon.

[Salt Peanuts]

edit: looking at the cost I don't think I'll be picking it up anytime soon.

Yep, and unfortunately, they don't show up on sale all that often. The best price new is probably around $87 or so. Really is a nice trackball, though.

[blessingx]

I got mine for $65 (on sale & after rebate).

True, they don't show up on sale often. Dell has them for $76 though.