guzziguy Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 I really dislike negative comments about someone else's work, but the wiring to the IEC and bridge rectifier mounted on the panel look like something done by a first-time DIYer. The uninsulated AC mains wiring is not cool. I have an issue with sloppy work like like, especially in an expensive commercial product. He could have at least used some heat-shrink tubing. Hi Ti. I agree that the wiring and soldering in that area look like something I might do, but I don't see any uninsulated wiring. Am I not seeing something or possibly does the picture I took make it look uninsulated?
n_maher Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Posted July 16, 2008 Hi Ti. I agree that the wiring and soldering in that area look like something I might do, but I don't see any uninsulated wiring. Am I not seeing something or possibly does the picture I took make it look uninsulated?Ti is talking about the connections at the IEC inlet. The ends of the wires are exposed, therefore there is live voltage present there that if you touched and were grounded, would definitely feel. A better way to do it would have been like this (the left-hand side of the photo): I cheesed out on the hot connection and just used shrink, but that was because there simply wasn't enough room to use a connector. Ti is saying that at a minimum all of Mikhails connection should use shrink like that and I agree with him.
guzziguy Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 Ti is talking about the connections at the IEC inlet. The ends of the wires are exposed, therefore there is live voltage present there that if you touched and were grounded, would definitely feel. A better way to do it would have been like this (the left-hand side of the photo): I cheesed out on the hot connection and just used shrink, but that was because there simply wasn't enough room to use a connector. Ti is saying that at a minimum all of Mikhails connection should use shrink like that and I agree with him. I think I understand. The entire connection (end of wire and the wiring post) should be insulated after soldering. I'll keep that in mind when I do a DIY project. I'm tempted to desolder the two wires and then resolder with some heat shrink. Should I? This is the first time I've opened the box and could easily be the last time. I don't see any reason that I'll actually have power to the box when it's open.
n_maher Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Posted July 16, 2008 I wouldn't bother, personally. With the cover on you're safe, you just need to be very careful if you ever have the amp plugged in with the cover off since those terminals are before the switch and "always on".
NightWoundsTime Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 As above, in ridiculous container. ....
guzziguy Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 I wouldn't bother, personally. With the cover on you're safe, you just need to be very careful if you ever have the amp plugged in with the cover off since those terminals are before the switch and "always on". Thanks. I can see that it is before the switch. The fact that it is always on when plugged in probably would have dawned on me sooner or later.
n_maher Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Posted July 16, 2008 TThe fact that it is always on when plugged in probably would have dawned on me sooner or later.
recstar24 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 Thanks. I can see that it is before the switch. The fact that it is always on when plugged in probably would have dawned on me sooner or later. Considering you are dealing with 120volts, I would say it is best that you realize that "prior"
en480c4 Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 Off topic, but this is another smiley that must be added! :sp:
guzziguy Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 Considering you are dealing with 120volts, I would say it is best that you realize that "prior" Absolutely. Fortunately, I have no reason to plug it in and if I did, I would be sure to have something with rubber soles on my feet to avoid being grounded. Also, I know and follow the "hand in the pocket" rule about poking on live hardware., Though that wouldn't help if I was grounded. Off topic, but this is another smiley that must be added! :sp: I agree, but couldn't someone make it look more like a certain engineering student at a mid-west school?
hirsch Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 I'm tempted to desolder the two wires and then resolder with some heat shrink. Should I? This is the first time I've opened the box and could easily be the last time. I don't see any reason that I'll actually have power to the box when it's open. NO!! Do not attempt any solder work inside of a tube amp, from any maker, unless you know what you are doing. Tube amps often contain high voltage capacitors that may not discharge immediately (or at all) even if the amp is unplugged. You can get a serious shock unless you bleed the charge off of any capacitors that retain the charge once you've turned the amp off. Always assume that the insides of a tube amp contain dangerous voltages, regardless of whether the amp is on or off, unplugged or not, and act accordingly.
kevin gilmore Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 I claim MASSIVE bullshit. Most tube amplifier manufacturers have bleeder resistors across the power supply capacitors. And a resistor to ground after the output capacitor does exactly the same thing. Singlepower amplifiers certainly have these safety resistors. One of the very few things mikhail gets right. If the thing has been off for more than 30 minutes and is unplugged, it is safe to work on. Its all about expectations. When you are spending $2k or more (way more) for a product you expect it to be built like other products in the same price range. You don't get that with singlepower. You get a hack job.
Dusty Chalk Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 'To ground' only works if you leave it plugged in, no?
kevin gilmore Posted July 16, 2008 Report Posted July 16, 2008 'To ground' only works if you leave it plugged in, no? NO. amplifer ground! Earth ground ties to the chassis to prevent the chassis from becoming electrically hot due to some massive component failure (like a shorted power transformer)
tom_hankins Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 Ok, so we all know about the various issue SP has delivering product on time. Several long standing members here have had rather large issues but everything always seemed to get sorted out, with the exception of Elephas. And, quite frankly, because I've always found Mikhail to be a nice guy when I've seen him at meets I've treated this all pretty lightly and figured that he'd just gotten behind again or underestimated the amount of time that it was going to take for a custom build. That was until today when I read some of the more recent posts in the SP thread on Head-Fi (thread starts here). What I find most troubling are the posts by Elephas, tom hankins and Kang on page 17. Between the 3 of them Mikhail has $30k+ and in each case is way beyond promised shipping deadlines and how (in tom's case) appears to be providing fraudulent shipping information. In addition there is the odd coincidence that moon audio has removed all of the SP information from their site (it's still hosted, but the links are gone). I posted this because while it's not my intention to fan the flames or rip Mikhail I think this is one of those issues that is vital to the community as a whole. Mikhail/SP is a major player and this is bad, really bad. I think the total paid by the three of us is around 23,600 not thirty thousand. My amp and my friends tubes have arrived so you can subtract $6.5K from that total. As far as the shipping info, I was promised my three packages by no later than Sat. two arrived monday, and the third on tues. How much my post had to do with this we will never know. I Was going to send back the preamp without listening to it. I tried it and it sounds really good in my system. I'll keep it because I am not going to live with something I like less, that cost more. If I do bussiness with Mikhail again it will be under stricter timelines. I also wont get so far out on something that has not been built before. I will let someone else put the R&D time in besides me. And payment wont be made until I recieve tracking info. I went through some B.S. with this purchase. But in the end the product is as good or better than I hoped, and i have been enjoying my time back in front of my system.
Elephas Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 Some of you may remember that I tried to sell my Supra-XLR and ES-1, that were and still are in Mikhail's possession, back in Feb. 2008. I had been waiting since Aug. and Sept. 2007, and decided to sell them in order to buy other things. I bought the amps used, and the respective sellers should be able to confirm the dates and that they shipped the amps directly to Single Power. Very soon after I posted the FS ad here (not at Head-Fi), Mikhail sent an email to me saying the amps had been completed. I was surprised, because at that time I had not told him the exact upgrades I wanted yet. I was still waiting for him to get back to me with final pricing info. I had the spreadsheet with the list prices and had asked him if there were any discounts and whether the discounts could be larger if more options were chosen. He hadn't responded for a couple of months. I did tell Mikhail a target budget back in Sept. 2007 though, and he said that he had picked and made the upgrades on the amps based on my target budget and other things we had discussed. He also offered discount pricing, which I thought to be reasonably fair. I trusted him, and happily sent him the money in Feb. 2008, totaling US$6600. Before sending the money, I specifically asked if all the work and upgrades had been completed. If nothing had been done yet, which I thought to be the case, I didn't owe Mikhail any money and could sell the amps as they were. Well, I didn't hear from Mikhail again for a long time. I became increasingly anxious and frustrated about being ignored. I was particularly bothered by the fact that I had sent Mikhail the money based on his assurance that all the work was complete and both amps were ready for shipping. In June, I asked Mikhail to take photos of the amps in order to show me that the upgrades had been made and they are complete. He sent me several closeup photos of some parts, most of which were blurry. None of the photos showed an overview of the amps. None showed the entire interior. I could not accept the photos as any kind of evidence. It seemed to me that the out-of-focus and horrible quality of the blurry photos were intended to be just that, blurry photos that were useless. Along with the photos, he stated in the email that the amps had been completed for over three months. It's now mid-July and I still haven't received the amps. Since Feb., in every email and phone call I've exchanged with Mikhail, he has kept on insisting that the amps were complete and ready to be shipped. And I kept on believing his assurances, accepting his apologies, and waiting to no avail. As of right now, Mikhail is still insisting that the amps had been completed "for over three months" and were/are ready to be shipped. I don't believe him and don't trust anything he says anymore. I've asked him to bring the amps to the Head-Fi Colorado Meet on July 26. This way, at least the meet participants can verify that the amps exist and are working. They could open up the amps and take photos of the interior. It has come to the point where I don't even trust Mikhail to actually ship working amps with all the upgrades that were specified. If he ever does ship the amps, I'm afraid to receive either a non-working amp, an amp that has problems and doesn't work right, or an amp without the specified upgrades that I paid for. How has the "Single Power experience" come to this? I haven't heard any Single Power amp, so I can't speak for sound quality. But I'm extremely disappointed with Single Power. I'm also very disappointed with those people who've recommended Single Power and posted positive things while refraining from telling the truth about negative things.
naamanf Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 back in Feb. 2008, $6600 I wouldn't deal with a company that doesn't ship a $5 product that is in stock within a week. That is just down right unacceptable from any company for any reason. I could see if SP was a side business or hobby taking a bit of extra time to build/repair/ship product, but not as a full time business. Sounds like he should have hired extra help. I know for a fact there are plenty of skilled migrant house builders in Colorado that would love a inside job for less than minimum wage under the table.
Guest aaron313 Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 And yet he has time to show up to the norcal meet, to make a delivery. Odd.
aardvark baguette Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 Damn, that sucks Elphas Something tells me SinglePower will be seeing litigation someday.
n_maher Posted July 17, 2008 Author Report Posted July 17, 2008 Elephas, You might seriously consider working with someone state side who could verify that the amps are working for you before having them shipped all the way to you.
luvdunhill Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 Elephas, You might seriously consider working with someone state side who could verify that the amps are working for you before having them shipped all the way to you. agreed...
hirsch Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 I claim MASSIVE bullshit. Most tube amplifier manufacturers have bleeder resistors across the power supply capacitors. And a resistor to ground after the output capacitor does exactly the same thing. Fuck off Kevin. This wasn't about your little crusade. Singlepower amplifiers have safety resistors in the power supply. Other amplifiers don't. If you're a novice, you don't know what to look for. There have been a lot of tube amps over the years, and unless you know that the amp you're working on has them, you need to take precautions. If a novice asks about how to work in a tube amp, you start off by emphasizing the possible danger. If a novice wouldn't recognize a bleeder resistor if it was staring him in the face, you want him being very careful any time a tube amp is open. Even if I'm staring at the bleeder resistor, I assume that it's not working until I've tested the voltages in the amp. I consider that to be tube amp safety 101.
luvdunhill Posted July 17, 2008 Report Posted July 17, 2008 Singlepower amplifiers have safety resistors in the power supply. Other amplifiers don't what, they invented the fucking thing? I'm not going to touch another Single Power amp whether it's on or off until I've seen what's inside.
n_maher Posted July 17, 2008 Author Report Posted July 17, 2008 Could we all calm down a bit here? Hirsch's advice (distilled): if you don't know what you're doing when it comes to high-voltage tube amps your safest option is to leave it alone and seek help. I see no bullshit there. Kevin's advice (distilled): Singlepower incorporates several standard safety measures to limit the possibility of frying yourself while working on one of their amps. So if you know what you're doing you can proceed with appropriate caution. I think Kevin actually threw Mikhail a bone there so why are we telling each other to fuck off again? Clearly there are things inside some of those amps that are less than completely safe.
Recommended Posts