recstar24 Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 To those individuals that were there, how does this recent turn of events compare to the whole Singlepower debacle way back in 03-04. I was not yet on headfi and have only heard rumblings of the tuberoller debacle, issues with quality control at SP, and essentially the beginning of the amp wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 To those individuals that were there, how does this recent turn of events compare to the whole Singlepower debacle way back in 03-04. I was not yet on headfi and have only heard rumblings of the tuberoller debacle, issues with quality control at SP, and essentially the beginning of the amp wars. These pictures aren't being posted by anyone with an agenda to benefit the competition...so it's very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I'm glad you've talked to Mikhail. Although we've never had direct contact, you are one of the people whose posts I most respect and look forward to reading. Actually, there are many people whose posts I respect in this thread, so I am happy to share any info about my situation here. I would also be very appreciative of anything any of you might say to Mikhail that would improve his business practices. As I've explained above, there was never a reason for the ES-1 to be delayed. I'm not the one preventing it from being shipped, Mikhail is, and has been since February. Everything was paid for in February, all the upgrades to both the Supra-XLR and ES-1 plus shipping costs. Mikhail has my address, phone number and email address. What reason could there be for the delay? Unless work on the amp hasn't been completed yet. But that would mean admitting that he lied to me in Feb. about the amps being complete and thereby prevented me from selling the amps. I know, as sure as I a can be, that Mikhail lied to me in Feb. and may still be lying now. He admitted as much in our phone conversation in June. I didn't record it, though, maybe Mikhail did. I just want a resolution soon. I'm not looking for any freebies, extra discounts or anything else from Mikhail that was not agreed upon in February. Thanks for posting such clear information about your situation. Because several people posted that I was somehow a "third party" who got hold of Mikhail when others could not, I should say that Mikhail asked me to call him for two reasons. First, I borrowed a couple tubes at the recent NorCal meet and he has a very limited supply of them (as in 3 left). He wanted to know if I intend to buy them and how I like them in general. Second, I think he wanted to talk through this mess with me because we have had these conversations for the last couple of years both as his customer -- experiencing many of the same issues/delays/broken promises/etc. -- and as a friend. Your situation only came up because he was talking through the remaining outstanding issues in a general way and I asked why he had not sent you your upgraded amps. I posted yesterday what he said, and I have seen resolutions for Tom Hankins, Blubliss, Kang, Wayne McManus (although not sure if completely completed) and have heard of others. That is one reason why I believe Mikhail is taking this seriously and trying to get current so he can move forward on an even keel. I don't have an answer for you on why he did not send the ES-1. Sadly, it could be that it was not ready when he said it was. Or, it could be that he was tinkering with it or wanted to tinker with it while your Supra issue was still pending. I simply don't know, but he certainly spends way too much time re-thinking and tinkering on custom/upgrade projects. I hope he brings it to the meet this weekend or merely ships it direct to you right away, and that one way or the other you get what you paid for and get this behind you. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Best of luck! Unfortunately I think that Michael will need a great deal of luck given that those amps are going to be required to make a trans-Pacific journey to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diebenkorn Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 That amp runs on chaos energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purk Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Elephas, Hopefully Mikhail can bring both amps to the meet for someone to inspect and listen for you. I hope at the end you will get perfectly working amps one of these days. Purk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASantos Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Those pics are painful to look at. I'm no expert, but that looks like an accident waiting to happen! It seems that Mikail need to improve other things than business method! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Anyone have a pointer to pics of a Tektronix scope that is done point to point? I've always heard that if you want to do pt-pt right, do it like that... and a scope is a hell of a lot more complex than an amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think Pete Millett's work generally represents a very high standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhd812 Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 These pictures aren't being posted by anyone with an agenda to benefit the competition...so it's very different. regardless it's the same news... I like Mikail alot esp after meeting him even from the first time, but to me all what has been said is nothing different from what i hear when i talk to most owners about their experience... in the end if you want to buy a SP amp then go for it but don't turn around and complain when you realize what many others have said or what you could of known before hand if you would of looked into what was already known. just like people who got sucker fucked in the diablo bullshit, no one held a gun to your head on buying and living everyday with a crap lines you were given... There is no one that can change the way Mikail handles his business, its his and he does what he wants with it. but you can choose if your willing to live with the stuff that has been posted in this thread, all over hf, and what others say at meets.. just like many SUV owners these days complaining about gas prices, no one held a gun to your head for you to buy it, the common knowledge of MPG's and your vehicle was out there the whole time. just because you got suckered into "0% for ETc ETC months" and bought it does not give you no right to bitch about Gas now..you did it to yourself.. it's not Mikail's fault or Larries fault that you are waiting months on a product, it has problems, dealing with the tracking B/S and everything else...its just the way they run their business and you CAN NOT change that...but what you could of done was decide if waiting months, Problems, and Tracking B/S to name a few is important to you in a headphone amp... that's life, live and learn...and if you don't like what your in now do everything and anything to get the fuck out of your place, cause your the one who is paying in the end... the best part is people are still going to read all this stuff and get themselves in the same situation again and go on the boards and bitch again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I agree that Pete's work is exemplary, and his amps are great, but there are some differences that should be acknowledged. 1. Your picture of Pete's work looks just as nice as stock p2p work I have seen inside SP amps. 2. Pete is not a manufacturer of volume products. 3. Pete's amp pictured above is not a stock amp that has had one, two, or more upgrade sessions where new and larger caps, for example, are substituted after the initial build, and at the purchaser's choice. 4. It doesn't have to look that neat and tidy to be professional, stable, or sound great. When I was waiting for months I was pissed too, but I really feel like we are in the beating a dead horse mode. That is just my opinion. I also agree with Billy -- to an extent -- on the notion that this is nothing really new for Mikhail because it has been a known quantity for a long time. Lastly, is Aaron going to post a new Sticky indicating that all FOUR of the backlog/broken promise orders he was able to identify were resolved and now buyers don't need to beware [as much] any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_McBob Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 1. Your picture of Pete's work looks just as nice as stock p2p work I have seen inside SP amps. You SERIOUSLY think that's comparable to Mikhail's average p2p work? P.S. thanks for the custom title, grawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_maher Posted July 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I agree that Pete's work is exemplary, and his amps are great, but there are some differences that should be acknowledged.Someone asked for an example of good PTP work, so I posted. I should have just used myself as an example rather than muddy the waters with another semi-commercial example (since Pete does produce commercial gear). Your beating a dead horse comment is somewhat valid, although given how many people he's jerked around I'm not entirely inclined to tell those folks not to vent if they want to (Elephas posting the pictures). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Who said anything about average work? OK, so let's say it is almost as nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Actually I've seen the inside of Voltron's amp (Sat by his side while he fixed Al's amp and worked on Neil's was an all night session) and it looks infinitely more organized than any of Elephas's pictures. Neil's looked better than those pics but not as nice as Al's ;p Wouldn't say that is representative of the man's average amp, but he is capable of making something that doesn't look like a glob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 (edited) regardless it's the same news...I don't know that it's the same -- he's definitely worse now than he was several years ago. If nothing else, he still hasn't delivered several of those same amps. Edited July 23, 2008 by Dusty Chalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzziguy Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I think Pete Millett's work generally represents a very high standard. Except for the connections to the IEC socket. Yes, the Millet is very nicely made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I forgot that Asr posted pics of my amp from a San Jose meet. You'd have to agree it's pretty purty inside, wouldn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Chalk Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 This thread is making me hungry for spaghetti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fungi Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I forgot that Asr posted pics of my amp from a San Jose meet. You'd have to agree it's pretty purty inside, wouldn't you? (img) Reminds me of that one Windows pipes screensaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungrych Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Wouldn't say that is representative of the man's average amp, but he is capable of making something that doesn't look like a glob. He's also capable of not constantly lying about shipping times and stringing customers along, but that isn't what happens. If any of you have ever talked to Mikhail, you'd know he seems like one of the nicest people in the universe and is very hard to criticize directly. This probably has made the problem far worse than it should be because nobody wants to be the one to bring him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Shrug. I wasn't implying that any such parallels should be taken from what I said. I merely wanted to say Al's amp doesn't look too shabby so at least he is capable of doing non-glob work. And hopefully that's what will come from his shop consistently post business-changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin gilmore Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 I forgot that Asr posted pics of my amp from a San Jose meet. You'd have to agree it's pretty purty inside, wouldn't you? OK, so how much did it cost, and why doesn't the rest of mikhail's stuff look like that. If you are going to pay premium prices you should at least get this level of quality. It's still not perfect, but way better than the rest of the stuff we have seen. It would still be a bitch to repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postjack Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 in the end if you want to buy a SP amp then go for it but don't turn around and complain when you realize what many others have said or what you could of known before hand if you would of looked into what was already known. just like people who got sucker fucked in the diablo bullshit, no one held a gun to your head on buying and living everyday with a crap lines you were given... There is no one that can change the way Mikail handles his business, its his and he does what he wants with it. but you can choose if your willing to live with the stuff that has been posted in this thread, all over hf, and what others say at meets. I agree with Billy. This thread is making me hungry for spaghetti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltron Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 OK, so how much did it cost, and why doesn't the rest of mikhail's stuff look like that. If you are going to pay premium prices you should at least get this level of quality. It's still not perfect, but way better than the rest of the stuff we have seen. It would still be a bitch to repair. I don't know how much it cost originally but what does the price of my amp have to do with anything? Do you think Mikhail charges more to make a nice clean build? I cannot answer why all of his amps don't look this neat, but I have stated a number of potential reasons previously. He gets overstretched and overcommitted. He loses key employees or has inconsistent employees. He tinkers on certain projects too much. He develops too many new designs when he should be focusing on existing projects. He does mods on top of mods when customers ask for them. He also is human. While I am typing, the SDS-XLR is serving as pre-amp and sounds gorgeous. If my amp was a mish-mosh on the inside but still sounded like this, then I really would not give a damn about the looks of the innards. I know people want value for their money, but why begrudge Mikhail or Ray or Rudi for the amount they are able to charge for their products in a free market? If you are paying top dollar and getting a crap amp, then that is another thing and the market will dictate how long such a maker will last or what kind of market share they will have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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